Criminal Adaptations
Criminal Adaptations is a True Crime/Movie Review Podcast discussing some of your favorite films, and the true crime stories that inspired them. With hosts Remi, who spent over a decade working in the film and television industry, and Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator. They discuss a new movie each week and compare the film to the real life events that the film is based on.
Criminal Adaptations
American History X
In part one of our two-part season four finale, we dive deep into the chilling parallels between the critically acclaimed film American History X (1998) and the real-life story of Frank Meeink, a former Neo-Nazi turned spokesperson for the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). While American History X explores the violent world of white supremacy through the fictional character Derek Vinyard, played by Edward Norton, Frank Meeink’s Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead offers a raw, firsthand account of indoctrination, violence, and ultimately, transformation. We explore how both stories depict the seductive pull of hate, the brutal consequences of extremist ideology, and the long, painful road to redemption. What parts of American History X mirror Frank’s own life? Where do the stories diverge? And what can these narratives teach us about the roots of radicalization—and the hope for change?
Primary Sources:
- Meeink, Frank & Roy, Jody. Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead: The Frank Meeink Story. Hawthorne Books (2010).
- The Times of Israel (2024)
- The Independent (2025)
Instagram: @CriminalAdaptations
Email us: criminaladaptations@gmail.com
TikTok: @criminaladaptations
Music: He_s Changing The Game by Darren-Curtis _ https___soundcloud.com_desperate-measurez_Music promoted by https___www.free-stock-music.com_Creative Commons _ Attribution 3.0 Unported License (CC BY 3.0)_https___creativecommons.org_licenses_by_3.0_deed.e
Welcome to Criminal Adaptations, the show where we take a look at some of your favorite movies and the true crime stories that inspired them. I'm Ashley. I'm a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator in the state of Oregon.
Remi:And I'm Remy. I spent over a decade working in the film and television industry in Los Angeles, California.
Ashley:And welcome back everyone. We hope that you had as a relaxing week as we did. If you're listening to this now, we are actually on a plane back from sunny Hawaii. Remy, how are you doing?
Remi:I'm doing a-okay considering. I want to thank everybody for joining us this season. This is, of course, our season finale and we are so grateful that you guys have been joining us. We hope you guys have been enjoying the program so far and, if you have, please tell a friend because we will be back next season with a lot more of this. But before we get into everything today, I would just like to acknowledge that we got a little bit of a shout out from Mr Daniel Franzese, one of the stars that we discussed two weeks ago in the Larry Clark film Bully, who is also probably mainly known for his role in the film Mean Girls. But he reposted our podcast mention on his Instagram and Facebook and it means the world to us and if you're listening, daniel, we sincerely appreciate it.
Ashley:And since it is our season finale, for anyone who hasn't listened to one of our finale episodes before, we always do a two-parter two episodes, movies, stories that are related in some way. This one is a little different than ones we've done before Remy. What are we talking about today?
Remi:to kick things off, Today we will be discussing the controversial film American History X and two weeks from now we will be covering Malcolm X in our season finale. So two very opposing viewpoints, two controversial figures played by two brilliant actors in two fantastic films. Ashley, had you seen the film we will be discussing today, american History X?
Ashley:I've seen it once. It has been quite some time I want to say like 15 years or something so I don't remember a lot about it, which is a running theme for me when we come to these movies I've seen before, but I do remember. I really, really loved the movie.
Remi:I have seen this movie several times. I did not see it in theaters, but me and my friends did watch it in high school. I rewatched it later in film school and probably a few times since then. I think it is a brilliantly made film with a powerful message and a career-defining performance from Edward Norton.
Ashley:It is the first movie I remember seeing Edward Norton in and knowing who he was, or at least that movie causing me to know who he was. I might have even saw this before I saw Fight Club and I know I saw it before I watched the movie we talked about in season one or two, the People vs Larry Flint, where he played the lawyer.
Remi:I have been following Edward Norton's career ever since he made his cinematic debut in Primal Fear, which got him a Best Supporting Actor nomination right out of the gate, and because of that I always looked out for what films he was coming out. With the People vs Larry Flint, he did a musical directed by Woody Allen at one point, of course, fight Club, and this All very, very, very different performances, and I know that some of his controlling behind-the-scenes behavior has affected some of his ability to get roles nowadays, which we will, of course, get into Now. He is playing a skinhead in this film. Ashley, do you have any experiences with skinheads? Did you know any? Were there any in your neighborhood growing up?
Ashley:Thankfully I have zero experience with skinheads and, to my knowledge, I do not think I have met a neo-Nazi.
Remi:I knew a few wannabe skinheads in high school. They were not the brightest bulbs in the box, if I'm going to be honest, but I only knew like maybe two or three of those kids, and they were not the kids that anyone really wanted to be around, to say the least.
Ashley:They actually are probably similar to the type of kids that Frank Mink who we'll get into later probably recruited to his skinhead gang when he was coming up in Philadelphia. But that's enough intro, let's get into the movie, shall we? Well, at least the pre-production part. The White man Marches.
Remi:On American History X is a 1998 film written by David McKenna and directed by Tony Kaye. In his feature film directorial debut, the film stars Edward Norton and Edward Furlong, along with Feruza Balk, stacey Keech, elliot Gould, avery Brooks, ethan Suplee and Beverly D'Angelo. David McKenna wrote the script, partially based on his own childhood, growing up in San Diego around the punk music scene, where he often witnessed violent behavior and even interviewed real skinheads to ensure the script's authenticity. Mckenna wrote and sold American History X by the time he was 26 and went on to write the screenplays for the 2001 films Bully and Blow, both of which we have already covered on our podcast.
Ashley:Wow, he is becoming a franchise client of ours now, isn't he?
Remi:Kathy Shulman and Robert Enfried were originally going to produce the film at Savoy Pictures until the studio went bankrupt and Michael DeLuca, then production president of New Line Cinema, swooped in to purchase the script. Dennis Hopper was initially approached by New Line Cinema to direct the film, but rejected the offer after the studio refused to pay him his million dollar directing fee.
Ashley:Wait, is that the same Dennis Hopper that was in Apocalypse Now?
Remi:It sure is, and he was also the villain in Speed. He directed Easy Rider. That's really the only film of his that I know he directed offhand and there wasn't even a script for that movie, so he is an interesting choice to direct this film. Bully director Larry Clark was next offered the opportunity to direct, but had to pass due to scheduling conflicts.
Ashley:And he probably didn't like how there wasn't enough teenagers in it.
Remi:There are a few teenagers in it, but probably not enough underage sex scenes for his taste. Eventually, music video director Tony Kaye, whose works include the videos for God's Gonna Cut you Down by Johnny Cash and Danny California by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, accepted Michael DeLuca's offer to make his directorial feature film debut with American History X. To ensure the film turned out well, kay even took his contract to a synagogue and had it signed in front of a rabbi. This will not be the first bit of eccentric behavior from Mr Kay. Joaquin Phoenix was first offered the role of Derek Vineyard but declined after finding the subject matter to be too distasteful. After several more casting calls, kay was still unable to find a suitable actor for the role, so casting director Valerie McAfee suggested an up-and-coming actor named Edward Norton, who had recently burst onto the scene with two star-making performances in 1996 with Primal Fear and the People vs Larry Flint. Though Kay initially objected, feeling that Norton lacked any weight or presence, he eventually conceded against his better judgment.
Ashley:And good thing he did, because the one thing I remember about this movie is Edward Norton's phenomenal performance.
Remi:Norton was also initially reluctant about the project until none other than Francis Ford Coppola convinced him otherwise.
Edward Norton:When I was talking to him about it he was like, well, what you know, what are you, what are you working on, what are you interested in? And I was telling him about my friend, david, who had written this American History X and that we were working on. I was kind of telling him what we were trying to do with it and how we wanted to make it is this kind of like guerrilla, you know thing. And he was like you should do that, you should do that immediately. And I was like, well, I want to. I was like don't, don't. I was like don't cancel, don't don't. You know, I still want to do this with you. He's like, no, no, I think never know what to do with you.
Ashley:Wait, what movie was he going to do with Francis Ford Coppola?
Remi:He was actually trying out for Matt Damon's role in the film the Rainmaker, which he did not get. He did not pass on that role, he just didn't get it and Matt Damon got it. But according to executive producer Steve Titch, norton's passion for the project was contagious and Norton even agreed to a pay cut of more than half a million dollars from his usual one million dollar fee. So he made the exception that Dennis Hopper was unwilling to make.
Ashley:That's pretty generous of him, considering how new he was on the scene.
Remi:Ironically, norton turned down the role of Private Ryan in 1998's Saving Private Ryan to do this film, a role that went to Mr Matt Damon. Edward Norton and Tom Hanks were each nominated for the Academy Award for Best Actor that year for their roles in American History X and Saving Private Ryan. However, both lost out to a contrastingly quirkier performance from Roberto Benigni in Life is Beautiful. To prepare for the role, norton shaved his head and gained 25 pounds or 11 kilograms of muscle by increasing his calorie intake and spending hours upon hours in the gym. Norton later stated that his physical transformation, along with the way Tony Kaye had filmed him, gave audiences a false impression that Norton was actually much bigger and tougher than he is in reality.
Remi:Valerie McCarthy also cast Edward Furlong in the role of Danny Vineyard, who is primarily known for his portrayal of a young John Connor in James Cameron's 1991 film Terminator 2 Judgment Day. Although Furlong plays a white supremacist in the film, he is actually half Mexican, with a father said to be of Russian Jewish descent. Similarly, feruza Balk, who plays Derek's neo-Nazi girlfriend Stacy in the film, is of Jewish descent in reality. Ethan Suplee, who was primarily known for his comedic roles in the Kevin Smith films Mallrats and Chasing Amy, leapt at the opportunity to play a more dramatic character in a film centered around a social issue which he felt was not receiving enough media attention. Just wait another 15 years, ethan. Enough media attention. Just wait another 15 years, ethan. Coincidentally, ethan Suplee and William Russ, who plays Derek's father in American History X, have both appeared in the ABC television show Boy Meets World, with Russ portraying Corey Matthews' father, alan, in 154 episodes, while Suplee was a recurring guest star in 19 episodes as Corey's high school bully, frankie the Enforcer Staccino.
Ashley:I totally forgot he was in Boy Meets World and now it is all coming back to me and I love it.
Remi:Ethan Suplee popped up in so many random things for years. He is a wonderful actor. I always enjoy seeing him in things and I am super glad that I still see him in stuff to this day. Principal Photography lasted for several months in Los Angeles and Venice Beach, california, and was finished in May of 1997. On top of his directing duties, tony Kaye also served as both cinematographer and camera operator and would often be seen silently walking around set scouting for interesting camera angles or visuals. Kay would typically arrive to work in a Lincoln Town car driven by a chauffeur with a license plate that simply read Jewish, though he supposedly carried upwards of four cell phones and a fax machine. Kay was able to establish a casual work environment for the cast and crew, often welcoming visitors on set, including Norton's girlfriend at the time, courtney Love, whom he had met while filming the People vs Larry Flint.
Ashley:That is so funny, I had no idea they dated.
Remi:I feel like I had heard about it a long time ago, but yeah, I had completely forgot that these two were an item for a period of time. Kay even had boxes of matzah delivered to the set during the Passover holidays, so it seems like he was able to establish a good environment for this type of intense film, and I am very glad that they got a Jewish director to tackle this subject matter as well. And finally, many of the actors had offensive white power tattoos painted on their arms during filming, which led to an awkward situation one night when actor Ethan Suplee forgot to remove all of his after filming one day and was later confronted by a random gentleman at a convenience store who took a bit of offense when he noticed. And with that shall we get into Tony Kaye's American History X.
Ashley:Yes, I am excited.
Remi:Our story begins in black and white. As the opening credits roll over a serene California beach, with the waves crashing gently onto the shore and the sun slowly setting beyond the horizon, we then cut to the suburban home of the Vineyard family, where Danny, played by Edward Furlong, is roused from his slumber by the intrusively loud sounds of his brother, derek, played by Edward Norton, having animalistic sex with his girlfriend, stacy, played by Feruza Balk. Derek's appearance is also exceptionally striking, to say the least, with a lean, muscular physique, shaved head, goatee and large swastika tattoo covering the left side of his chest, positioned over his heart. Outside, a car carrying three armed black men slowly pulls up in front of the house. Two of the men then exit the vehicle, with one keeping watch while the other smashes out the window of Derek's van parked in the driveway.
Remi:Hearing the commotion outside, danny bolts from his bed to inform his brother Derek that his van is being stolen. Without hesitation, derek immediately leaps into action, grabbing his gun from the nightstand and throwing on his black combat boots, before rushing downstairs wearing nothing but a pair of white boxer shorts. After checking the peephole, derek bursts out of the front door, shooting the lookout dead and severely wounding the other man breaking into his van. As the getaway driver narrowly escapes, with Danny looking on frozen in fear, from the front porch, derek slowly returns his attention to the injured man still bleeding on the sidewalk and begins steadily closing in on him, before the scene suddenly cuts to black.
Ashley:I have a feeling he was not approaching him to render first aid.
Remi:He certainly was not. No. We then jump ahead in time to two years later, where the film has now shifted into full color and Danny is sitting outside the principal's office at his high school in Venice Beach. Inside, the school's principal, dr Sweeney, played by Avery Brooks, is in the midst of discussing Danny's recent book report on the Adolf Hitler autobiography Mein Kampf with Danny's history teacher, murray, played by Elliot Gould. Murray, who is Jewish and has a history with Danny's mother, is deeply offended by Danny's flagrant disrespect. Though Murray insists that Danny is a lost cause at this point, dr Sweeney, who is a black man, remains hopeful, believing that Danny still has the potential to change with the proper guidance. Danny is called in to speak with Dr Sweeney about the incident alone shortly after, where we learn that Danny's brother, derek, was recently released from prison. Earlier that very morning as punishment for Danny's insolence, danny is informed that he will now be taking history class one-on-one every day directly with Dr Sweeney for a brand new course Sweeney appropriately names American History X.
Ashley:That teacher is doing exactly what he should do. He recognizes that this is a troubled kid and, instead of casting him off, like the teacher is, he is taking on a more personalized and unique approach.
Remi:I agree. Everything that Dr Sweeney does in this film is the right approach to take. Danny's first assignment is to write another paper, due by the next day, examining the impact of Derek's arrest on Danny and the rest of their family, with the caveat of Danny potentially being expelled if he fails to turn the assignment in on time. Later that day, in the boys' restroom, danny witnesses a group of black students assaulting and bullying a white classmate Calmly emerging from his stall. Danny witnesses a group of black students assaulting and bullying a white classmate Calmly emerging from his stall. Still smoking a cigarette, danny fearlessly blows a thick cloud of white, smoky air directly into the lead bully's face. Thankfully, the altercation is delayed from escalating any further that day after the class bell rings, causing the bullies to all disperse without any incident.
Remi:Meanwhile, down at the Venice Beach Police Station, dr Sweeney has been brought in to consult on an ongoing investigation into a growing white supremacist group in the area which Derek had once been a key member of, known as the DOC, led by a man named Cameron Alexander, played by Stacey Keech.
Remi:The officers play a news clip for Dr Sweeney from years prior, featuring a young, shaggy-haired Derek being interviewed by a local news station, moments after learning of his father's death at the hands of a black man while working as a firefighter attempting to extinguish a growing blaze that had started in a drug den.
Remi:Derek tearfully laments the loss of his father, but what begins as a somber moment quickly turns into a hate-filled rant, with Derek blaming his father's murder, along with the rest of America's problems, squarely on any other race that is not specifically of white European ancestry. The police plan on keeping a close eye on Derek now that he's been released from prison, but Sweeney warns the officers that if anything happens to Derek, that there could be hell to pay from the other skinheads in retaliation. We then flash back to the courts of Venice Beach, where a group of skinheads are in the midst of playing a heated basketball game against a team of black players. As Derek, danny and Cameron watch intently from the sidelines, frustrated with his team's performance, derek subs in by proudly removing his t-shirt to unveil his unmistakably offensive swastika tattoo for all to see, then suggesting that they up the stakes by playing for permanent race rights over the Venice Beach basketball courts.
Ashley:I'm sure that went over smoothly courts.
Remi:I'm sure that went over smoothly. Well, they do agree to the terms and the two teams engage in a ferociously intense game of three-on-three which nearly erupts in violence but ultimately ends with Derek scoring the winning point and securing victory for the skinheads. That day, returning to the present, danny arrives back home and we see that his family now lives in a much smaller apartment in a far rougher part of town. Inside, derek now, with a full head of hair, wearing a long-sleeved white shirt hiding his tattoos, sits in the living room catching up with his mother, doris, played by Beverly D'Angelo, and his sister, davina, played by Jennifer Lean.
Remi:For the first time in two years, after forbidding his family to visit him while he was incarcerated, I did notice that all the members of this family have D names too, sort of like your family Ashley, all A names. Excited for his brother's return, danny eagerly shows Derek his first Nazi tattoo, freshly inked on Danny's forearm, and though Derek doesn't say much, he is clearly displeased with his little brother's new body art. Soon after, an old skinhead friend of Derek's named Seth, played by Ethan Suplee, arrives to pick up Derek for a party being hosted by Cameron that night in Derek's honor. While waiting for Derek Seth kills some time by interviewing Danny on his digital camcorder.
Frank Meeink:Who do you hate, Danny?
Danny Vinyard (American History - X):I hate anyone that isn't white Protestant why they're a burden to the advancement of the white race. Some of them are alright. I guess None of them are fucking alright, danny.
Danny Vinyard (American History - X):Okay, they're all a bunch of fucking freeloaders. Remember what Cam said we don't know them, we don't want to know them. They're the fucking enemy. Now what don't know them? We don't want to know them, they're the fucking enemy. Now, what don't you like about them? And say it with some fucking conviction.
Danny Vinyard (American History - X):I hate the fact that it's cool to be black these days Good. I hate this hip-hop fucking influence on white fucking suburbia Good. And I hate Tabitha Soren and all her Zionist MTV fucking pigs telling us we should get along. Save the rhetorical bullshit, Hillary Rodham Clinton, because it ain't gonna fucking happen.
Ashley:It's so eerie how these sentiments are still being repeated to this day, even louder now than in the past decade.
Remi:We then flash back again in black and white, to a time shortly after the death of Derek and Danny's father, when Derek was still deeply entrenched in his radicalization. Gathered in the parking lot of a Mexican grocery store, derek delivers a rousing speech to a formidably large gang of captivated skinheads rallying against the recent influx in local immigrant-owned businesses.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):All right, listen up. We need to open our eyes. There's over 2 million illegal immigrants bedding down in this state tonight. The state spent $3 billion last year on services for those people who had no right to be here in the first place. $3 billion $400 million just to lock up a bunch of illegal immigrant criminals who only got into this country because the fucking INS decided it's not worth the effort to screen for convicted felons. There's nothing funny going on here. This is about your life and mine. It's about decent, hardworking Americans falling through the cracks and getting the shaft because their government cares more about the constitutional rights of a bunch of people who aren't even citizens of this country.
Ashley:I just hate how this sounds so similar to things we have heard time and time again by certain people in political power in this country.
Remi:It is very chilling that this is an issue that we are still dealing with. To send a message, the entire gang dons ski masks and proceed to violently storm the Mexican grocery store, assaulting any workers or customers that get in their path while destroying everything in sight, then fleeing as quickly as they came. The next day, over dinner at the vineyard home, derek gets into a heated debate over the Rodney King beating with his mother's new boyfriend, murray, who later becomes Danny's history teacher.
Ashley:That's a weird coincidence.
Remi:I know I did always think it was very odd that they had his history teacher be romantically linked to the mom. At one point it seems unnecessary when the conversation quickly devolves into a shouting match, derek's sister, davina, attempts to leave the situation, only for Derek to physically prevent her from doing so by furiously shoving her to the floor. After Davina has left in hysterics, derek unleashes a barrage of anti-Semitic insults towards Murray, before heartlessly ejecting him from the house by using his swastika tattoo as a not-welcome sign. Afterward, derek's mother, doris, tells Derek that she is ashamed of the man he has become and wants him out of her house by the following morning.
Ashley:I don't know what you would do as a mother if your kid started to act and believe in this way.
Remi:They're brainwashed. I will say it flat out it's like a cult. There isn't much you can do. This person has intrusive thoughts that have taken over their brain and it is very, very hard to undo this type of thinking in people, but thankfully it is not impossible, as we will hear in both of our stories. I believe that night we see the final moments of the failed van theft from earlier reach its harrowing conclusion. As the wounded thief lays bleeding in the driveway, derek returns, consumed by rage, forcing the thief at gunpoint to bite down onto the edge of the sidewalk before killing the thief instantly with a brutal curb stomp to the back of his skull. The police arrive moments later and arrest Derek, though it is painfully clear by his expression that he feels absolutely no remorse for his actions.
Ashley:And he only goes to prison for two years for that.
Remi:Well, derek is convicted of voluntary manslaughter due to Danny testifying on his brother's behalf, potentially saving Derek from a sentence of life behind bars. Returning to the present, derek and Seth arrive at the skinhead party being thrown in Derek's honor, while Danny stays home to work on his assignment for American History X. The racist romp is in full swing at this point, with Derek noticing that the group has grown exponentially in both size and intensity during his time away. Side note here the punk band Antiheroes sued New Line Cinema over a character in this scene having a tattoo which featured the band's logo. Since the band understandably did not want to be associated with Nazis, even fictional ones, in any way, antiheroes went on to record a song about the situation, called NLC, which was primarily meant to antagonize New Line Cinema over the entire ordeal.
Ashley:So did the actor actually have the tattoo and they just didn't think to cover it up?
Remi:Honestly, I think it was an extra. I think someone literally had this tattoo because they were a fan of the band and they were playing a skinhead in the scene. They were probably not a skinhead in real life, but I can understand why anti-heroes would get upset by this.
Ashley:Well, and the producers probably didn't even notice or realize that it was a band named Tattoo. I've never heard of this band before.
Remi:Exactly, it's a punk band. They're not mainstream at all, so it's understandable how something like this could have been overlooked, and it is also understandable that the band was upset about it.
Ashley:Even though the whole movie is about transformation. But that's neither here nor there, I guess.
Remi:Though Derek tries to maintain a low profile amongst the sea of rowdy skinheads, things go awry when he runs into his old flame, stacy, and reveals that he no longer believes in the DOC's rhetoric. When Stacy becomes defensive, derek quickly realizes that she may not be trustworthy, so hastily excuses himself in order to seek out his former mentor, cameron Alexander. Much to his surprise, derek discovers Cameron alone in a back room speaking with Danny, who had snuck out to attend the event separately. After Danny returns to the party, derek tells Cameron that he and Danny are done with the DOC and accuses Cameron of brainwashing teenagers into joining his organization.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):done some hard time, don't you?
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):fucking talk to me about hard time. You don't know a thing about it. Hey, I've done mine. You didn't do shit. I found out about your little prison story. You did two months and then you rolled over on two kids and let them go down for you. So don't feed me your fucking lies, Cameron All right, this is stupid, I'm done.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):You go cool off, get laid, do something.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):Get your head on straight, then I'll talk to you. Yeah, but it doesn't even really matter if I don't does it, because you've got the next crop all lined up and ready to go, you fucking chicken hawk.
Remi:When Cameron provokes Derek by mentioning his influence over Danny, derek snaps and beats Cameron mercilessly before frantically fleeing the scene in search of Danny. To make their escape Back outside, derek is publicly confronted by Stacy, in front of the entire party, about his earlier statements leading to Seth pulling a gun on Derek, demanding answers. Luckily, derek manages to disarm Seth, then uses Seth's gun to hold off the rest of the group as Derek runs to safety. Once the coast is clear, derek tosses Seth's gun into a trash can but is suddenly ambushed out of nowhere by Danny, in a state of outrage and confusion due to Derek's actions. After Danny has calmed down a bit, the two brothers walk down to the Venice Beach basketball courts and take a seat on the bleachers, where Derek finally reveals the true story behind his change of heart. We flash back again in black and white to Derek's early days at Chino Prison, where Derek finds himself overwhelmingly surrounded by other races. To maintain his safety while incarcerated, derek aligns himself with a group of like-minded, racially obtuse individuals, more commonly known as the Aryan Brotherhood.
Remi:During the days, Derek is assigned to work in the laundry room with a black inmate named Lamont, played by Guy Torrey, who remains persistently talkative despite Derek's steadfast refusal to speak with him. This routine continues for an entire year until one day when Derek catches a member of his Aryan Brotherhood selling drugs for the Mexicans out in the prison yard. When Derek voices his disapproval, the other Aryans seem unconcerned and even annoyed by Derek's dutiful insistence on strict racial segregation, regardless of the circumstances. Displeased with the other Aryan's lack of commitment, derek distances himself from the rest of the group and even sits alone during mealtimes as a stubborn form of protest. An unintentional result of this is that Derek steadily begins forming a close bond with his workmate Lamont over the countless hours spent working in the laundry room together. In time, the two even begin having full-blown conversations with each other, leading to Derek eventually learning the reason behind Lamont's six-year sentence.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):What the fuck landed you in here? You didn't kill anybody. You're too skinny for a gangbanger.
Lamont (American History - X):Oh, ain't that a bitch? All right, Don't judge a book by its cover. Man, I can throw these things, all right you know what I'm saying?
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):Yeah, whatever, all right, come on. Come on, what'd you do?
Lamont (American History - X):Come on, man, it's none of your business. All right, it's embarrassing, all right. It's none of your goddamn business.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):What Embarrassed. Everybody in here's embarrassed. You think nobody in here got away with anything. What'd you do? Man, I stole the TV, all right. So you stole the TV. What's embarrassing about that?
Lamont (American History - X):I stole a TV from a store that was right next door to a donut shop. All right, I run out. The store owner's running behind me yelling bam. I run into three cops, all right, oh see, see, I told you it was embarrassing. You laughed, wait a sec, wait a sec.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):That doesn't make sense. Nah, you didn't get six years for stealing a TV man, Come on.
Lamont (American History - X):I go in the store. I come out, the police officer grabs my arm, the TV, falls on his foot and breaks it. They said I threw the TV at the officer.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):Assault Six years. Come on, tell the truth. You chucked it at him, or something.
Lamont (American History - X):Like I said, I came out of the store, grabbed my arm and fell on his foot.
Ashley:This really highlights the racial disparities in sentencing in this country. Derek gets two to three years for killing someone and Lamont gets six for stealing and dropping a TV.
Remi:Derek killed two people, not just one, so he was sentenced to three years with parole eligibility in two years, and Lamont, who didn't kill anyone, got six years Later. That week, derek is cornered in the men's showers and viciously raped and beaten unconscious by the other Aryans as a form of punishment for Derek's public displays of disrespect. While recovering in the infirmary, derek is paid a surprise visit by his former teacher, dr Sweeney, who has come to speak with Derek about his growing concerns over Danny emulating Derek's behavior.
Edward Norton:I don't know. I don't know what I feel, I'm all.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):I feel a little inside out. I'm, you know, I don't know. There's some things that that don't fit. Well, that happens.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):Look, Derek, you are too damn smart to be floating around here pretending you don't see all the holes in this bullshit.
Derek Vinyard (American History - X):Hey, listen, you know what I said. I was confused. I didn't say I didn't believe in it.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):All right. That's why you have to stay open Right now. Your anger is consuming you. Your anger is shutting down the brain God gave you. God, you know man.
Edward Norton:You've been talking about what's going on in me since I was in high school. How the fuck do you know so much about what's going on inside me?
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):No, I know about me, I know about this place, I know about the place you are in. What do? You know about the place I'm in. There was a moment when I used to blame everything and everyone for all the pain and suffering and vile things that happened to me, that I saw happen to my people. I used to blame everybody, blame white people, blame society, blame God. I didn't get no answers because I was asking the wrong questions. You have to ask the right question, like what has anything you've done made your life better?
Ashley:Ah, so Dr Sweeney had connections to Derek, which is why he's taking an interest in Danny.
Remi:Dr Sweeney had actually been one of Derek's favorite teachers in school, which I will go into a little bit later, but very great words of wisdom coming from Avery Brooks's character, dr Sweeney, in this scene. After carefully pondering Dr Sweeney's question, derek breaks down and tearfully acknowledges that his hate-fueled actions have been destroying his family for several years now. From that point forward, derek isolates himself, spending the majority of his time reading books sent to him by Dr Sweeney. Throughout the rest of his sentence, derek fully expects to be attacked by one of the other races, without protection from the Aryans. But to Derek's astonishment, that fateful day never came and by Derek's release date, the only race that had ever harmed him ended up being his own. Just before exiting the prison gates, derek bids his only friend, lamont, a fond farewell, aware that it was likely his influence that had kept Derek safe from the other races during the remainder of his sentence. Finally, returning to the present, derek confesses his remorse for the lives he took and the pain that he's caused Danny and their family. As Danny hangs on Derek's every word, feeling closer to his brother than ever before, derek and Danny embrace in a heartfelt moment before returning home to tear down the various neo-Nazi propaganda which had previously decorated the walls of Danny's bedroom. That night, danny also finishes his assignment for Dr Sweeney's American History X class.
Remi:We then get one final flashback in black and white of a Vineyard family dinner before the family's patriarch, dennis Vineyard, played by William Russ, had passed on. Though the scene is brief, it does reveal that much of Derek and Danny's neo-Nazi fanaticism had originally stemmed from their own father's casual racism spoken around the house throughout the boy's childhood. Side note here according to actor William Russ, who plays Derek and Danny's father in this scene, his character was originally written as more of an Archie Bunker, eric Cartman type, with heavy dialogue containing numerous racist expletives. However, russ told the filmmakers that his character really only needed to say the N-word once for audiences to fully understand exactly what kind of a man Dennis Vineyard truly was. To fully understand exactly what kind of a man Dennis Vineyard truly was.
Remi:Back in the present, a new day dawns on a fresh chapter in Derek and Danny's lives as the brothers say their goodbyes to the rest of the family before Derek walks Danny to school on his way to a meeting with his parole officer, just before class, danny stops off in the boys' restroom to relieve himself before class. Danny stops off in the boys' restroom to relieve himself, only to be unexpectedly shot and killed by the same black student he had disrespected the previous day. Derek returns after the police and ambulances have already arrived, sending Derek into a panic as he comes, pushing his way through the police barricades and into the boys' restroom, only to be overwhelmingly devastated by the sight of Danny's lifeless body laying splattered in blood on the cold tile floor.
Ashley:Oh my god, I did not remember that Danny dies in this.
Remi:The film ends with a voiceover from Danny reading his completed paper, ending with a quote from Abraham Lincoln's 1861 first inaugural address. As the words play over, shots of the same beach we had seen in the beginning now shown in beautifully vibrant full color.
Danny Vinyard (American History - X):Derek says it's always good to end a paper with a quote. He says someone else has already said it best. So if you can't top it, steal from them and go out strong. So I picked a guy I thought you'd like. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strain, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be by the better angels of our nature.
Remi:And that was Tony Kaye's American History X. Do you have any initial thoughts, Ashley?
Ashley:It's such a sad ending. I kind of wish it would have ended on a more hopeful note have ended on a more hopeful note In the film.
Remi:I didn't mention this in my summary, but the black student is shown in the background during a few other scenes and he is shown with his older brother, who appears to be more of a gangbanger type, and the impression I get is that it's a similar situation where it is a younger brother being heavily influenced by their older brother.
Ashley:It's a full circle moment. They're both young kids who hate each other and are being influenced by their older siblings and society to hate and then carry out these harmful acts based on their rage.
Remi:It truly truly is a tragic story and not one that is completely fiction.
Ashley:What did you think about the director's decision to have all the past scenes filmed in black and white and the future in color? I imagine that made it easier to follow when you're jumping back in time. But even with this you would have been able to tell just even based on Edward Norton's hair. But did you think that was a nice stylistic decision?
Remi:Well, the reason for that decision is they wanted to show that any scene portrayed in black and white is when the character of Derek is being influenced by racism, where he is seeing things in black and white. If the scene is in color, that means he is seeing the world for as it truly is. And there is one exception to this. It's almost always flashbacks in the film, but there is a very brief scene of Danny and Derek as little children that is also in color and that is done on purpose because it is before they had any of these influences on them. So I think it is a brilliant stylistic choice.
Ashley:I do really like that. It's a big overarching metaphor that is really describing the film as a whole.
Remi:Well, let's get into the release and post-production of this film, because it's pretty wild. Tony Kaye's original cut of the film had a runtime of a tight 95 minutes and was delivered on time within budget.
Ashley:That is a rarity.
Remi:I know right. Especially these days, Every movie seems like it's three and a half hours.
Ashley:And way over budget.
Remi:Although Kay's version generated a positive response from test audiences, new Line Cinema still insisted on further edits, much to Kay's chagrin, who stated I'm fully aware that I'm a first-time director, but I need the same autonomy and respect that Stanley Kubrick gets.
Ashley:They wanted further edits after 95 minutes.
Remi:Yes, I don't know what they were looking for from these additional edits, but Norton added stuff to the film, which is, again, a rarity, especially for an actor to do something like that. But there was time added to this film instead of taken off in these later edits. Soon afterwards, edward Norton became involved in the editing process alongside Kay, quickly leading to a combative relationship between the two over the film's final cut. At one point, kay was so angered by Norton's edits that he even punched a wall, resulting in Kay needing several stitches for his injured hand.
Ashley:What does this movie end up being runtime-wise?
Remi:They add an additional 18 minutes of footage to the finished version of the film.
Ashley:Okay, so it sounds like maybe New Line Cinema wanted the movie to be longer than Tony Kaye's cut.
Remi:I honestly don't know what New Line Cinema was looking for with a new cut of this film. If it was delivered on time within budget 95 minutes, hey man, that's ready to go. But clearly the film was not capturing something or portraying something that they felt that it should in some way. I'm not sure, really. I've never seen the original Tony K version, so I don't have anything to compare it to. In June of 1998, new Line Cinema test-screened a second cut of the film, which fared slightly better than the original and included the changes made by Norton. Although the exact differences between the two versions have been disputed over the years, what is known is that Norton and Kay fiercely disagreed on the length of certain scenes, including a family argument, an anti-immigration speech and a flashback scene with Derek's father. Kay would later describe Norton's version of the film as a total abuse of creativity and crammed with shots of everyone crying in each other's arms.
Ashley:I have seen a video a while back of this director talking about the movie and he is so upset with what gets put out.
Remi:Oh, we'll get to that video in just a moment. In the end, an additional 18 minutes of footage was added to the film by Norton personally, and it has also been alleged that Kay's original ending of Derek shaving his head again after Danny's murder was specifically changed due to Norton's objections.
Ashley:Oof. I will say I'm glad they did not end it on that 100% agree.
Remi:That has the person unlearn the message in the end and I fiercely disapprove of that happening in films, except in the Charlize Theron movie Young Adult. That's the one exception, because Norton's cut received a slightly more positive reception during test screenings. New Line Cinema attempted to persuade Kay to release Norton's version of the film, but Kay objected. As a compromise, the studio gave Kay an additional eight weeks to re-edit his version of the film and submit a new cut. However, during this period, kay instead chose to publicly condemn the behavior of both Norton and New Line Cinema.
Tony Kaye:The film is good. It begins to probe and explore. Had I been permitted to complete my work, the film would have been great. My vision of the film never made it to the screen because Edward Norton, the actor, was permitted by the producers to edit and alter the film.
Ashley:This is a really tough situation. I understand why this director is pissed. I don't think the studio should have given Edward Norton the power to basically have more control over the final cut than the director did, but the way the director is going about expressing his dissatisfaction with this is going to do nothing other than get him completely blacklisted from future potential projects.
Remi:Agreed. There is a unspoken rule in Hollywood that you never really talk shit. You have to kind of take it on the chin. Even when you make a movie that the studio has re-edited and changed to an unrecognizable point, you are still supposed to just take it in stride and carry on, but Tony Kaye was clearly not willing to do that. Additionally, kaye reportedly spent over $100,000 on bizarrely cryptic advertisements in the Hollywood press, quoting John Lennon and Abraham Lincoln, as a form of protest against the studio's mandates. In an effort to reach some sort of compromise, a meeting was eventually called between the film's producers and Tony Kay, though Kay insisted on videotaping the entire encounter and was accompanied by a priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk. Kaye claimed to have a radical new vision in mind for the film, but was uncertain of how long it would actually take to complete, so the studio offered Kaye an additional eight weeks to recut his version of the film again.
Ashley:I am shocked they're even entertaining this at this point.
Remi:Me too. In all honesty, I figured the studio would have just removed him at this point and stopped speaking with him. But this delay also meant that American History X had to be pushed from its intended premiere at the 1998 Toronto International Film Festival to allow Kay more time to work on the project, despite collaborating with Nobel Prize winning poet Derek Wilcott on new narration for the film. The eight-week deadline came and went without Kay ever submitting another version. Line came and went without Kay ever submitting another version. So on July 28, 1998, new Line Cinema officially announced that Norton's cut of American History X would be receiving a theatrical release in lieu of Kay's cut. As a result, kay disowned the film and even attempted to have his name removed from the project entirely and instead be credited under the pseudonym Humpty Dumpty, but his request was denied by the Directors Guild of America. Kay went on to file a $200 million lawsuit against the DGA and New Line Cinema, but the case was dismissed in early 2000.
Ashley:He should have just done what the writer for Bully did and just have a pseudonym be an actual human name, not the name of a cracked egg.
Remi:Yeah, I think it was the Humpty Dumpty thing that the Directors Guild was not cool with. They probably would have accepted a John Smith or a Mike Jones or something like that. American History X finally premiered in New York City and Los Angeles on October 28, 1998, and went on to gross over $6.7 million in the US fora worldwide total of over $23.8 million against a production budget of $20 million, so not a huge hit. American History X has an 84% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, with a critical consensus that reads American History X doesn't contend with its subject matter as fully as it could, but Edward Norton's performance gives this hard-hitting drama crucial weight. And I do feel that Edward Norton's performance is magnificent in the film. But I think that's not giving enough credit to the film itself. I think the film is very, very, very well done well to the critics point.
Ashley:There were two areas I wrote down, which I'm sure we'll talk about more towards the end, that I wish the movie would have expanded on, and it would have been about Norton's transition into having these neo-nazi beliefs and the experiences he had with his fellow crew members. And also I think there could have been a lot more about his time in prison and having it be a more slow, gradual transition rather than just kind of like he gets assaulted by the Aryan nation. Dr Sweeney comes in and all of a sudden he's like I'm wrong.
Remi:That thought did cross my mind when I was watching the film. It did seem pretty instantaneous. Admittedly, it was an extremely traumatic event that happened to him, but it did seem pretty sudden. So I think adding more time to this movie was beneficial, and possibly adding a little bit more could have even been more beneficial. Edward Norton was nominated in the Best Actor category at the 71st Academy Awards for his performance as Derek Vineyard, with Norton's loss to Roberto Benigni later being included in Empire Magazine's list of 22 Incredibly Shocking Oscar Injustices.
Ashley:I haven't seen that movie that won, but Norton's performance is better.
Remi:I can confidently say that, while Norton's talent and intelligence has continued to be widely respected over the years, he has also gained a long-standing reputation around Hollywood for being difficult to work with, especially when it comes to creative control. Several high-profile projects have been marked by tension or conflict due to his insistence on being deeply involved in the creative process, beyond the scope of his acting duties.
Ashley:Do you know what some of those movies are?
Remi:Well, Norton had originally been tapped to play Bruce Banner, aka the Hulk, in Disney's Marvel films after his debut in 2008's the Incredible Hulk, but Norton clashed with Marvel over the final edit, with Norton wanting a darker, more character-driven film and Marvel pushing for a far more action-oriented tone overall and I agree with Marvel on this one. We had already had Ang Lee's Hulk before this, so I think more of a action-oriented Hulk movie was what the people needed at this point. Against the studio's wishes, Norton rewrote large portions of the script uncredited, with Marvel, largely ignoring Norton's input during post-production. When the time came for Norton to reprise his role as Bruce Banner and the Hulk in 2012's the Avengers, Marvel instead chose to replace Norton with Mark Ruffalo, citing the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members.
Ashley:Yeah, with an ensemble movie like the Avengers, you do need someone that is okay with sharing the spotlight with a ton of other people.
Remi:And I had also read. He reportedly clashed with Brett Ratner while filming the movie Red Dragon as well. Director Tony Kaye's behavior during the post-production of American History X caused Hollywood to label him as unemployable, and he did not direct another film until the 2006 documentary Lake of Fire. Kay finally watched the film in June of 2007 and acknowledged that it had become quite a little classic in its own befuddled way by 2012,. Kay admitted that he was very proud of what they had all achieved and even apologized for his past behavior, stating my ego got in the way, that was entirely my fault. Whenever I can, I take the opportunity to apologize, and that was Tony Kaye's American History X, a brilliant movie made by two brilliant men who should have never worked together, in my opinion, but were able to create something magnificent in this film, in my opinion, but were able to create something magnificent in this film, in my opinion.
Ashley:Good for the director for coming around and having the humility to admit that perhaps he took things a little bit too far.
Remi:The older I get, the more I understand when people look back with a little bit more of embarrassment. So good on you, tony K, for admitting that you could have handled things differently. But this is just part of the story, and I do need to mention, before we jump into Ashley's portion, that the film is not directly based on the story Ashley is about to tell, but it was greatly influenced by the story she is about to tell. So, ashley, take it away.
Ashley:Frank Mink was born in Philadelphia on May 7th 1975. His father, frank Sr, was a chess champion, star basketball player and promising boxer until he saw his younger brother get electrocuted on train tracks and subsequently die from his injuries. He blamed himself for the accident, turned to drugs and alcohol and joined a gang. When he was 14 or 15 years old, his loving Italian parents tried to get him back on the right track but ended up kicking him out when he was 16. While on leave from the Navy when he was 18, he met 16-year-old Margaret. They discovered she was pregnant and married soon after.
Ashley:Frank's parents were known for their wild parties even after he was born, but Margaret cleaned up her act when he was two. She left Frank Sr, moved in with her parents and got an entry-level job at a stock brokerage firm. Once she saved up enough money, she moved into a house with her best friend who also had a young son. After realizing how much Frank missed his dad, she sent him to his paternal grandparents on weekends, since Frank wasn't allowed to go to his dad's house because he used drugs and lived with a fellow gang member. Although Frank did see his dad a bit more, their interactions didn't really qualify as quality time. He typically showed up for dinner, but left early to go to the bar or hang out with his crew. When he did take Frank out of his parents' home, they typically went to his favorite bar on Saturday afternoons. Once Frank got a little bit older, his dad taught his son how to fight while slowly introducing weapons like bottles, pool cues, lead pipes and even guns and knives.
Remi:He was teaching his son how to fight with guns and knives.
Ashley:Yeah, when he was like six, seven, eight years old and knives yeah, when he was like six, seven, eight years old.
Remi:That is intense, to say the least.
Ashley:When Frank was eight, his 15-year-old cousin, nick, started living with him because he didn't want to move with his family to their newly purchased farm in Lancaster. Since Frank Sr started shaving even more hours off their visitation time, frank began spending most of his free time with Nick and accompanied him to weekend visits at his aunt and uncle's farm. Two years later, margaret started dating a man named John and introduced him to Frank the day he moved in. Frank was optimistic about his new father figure at first because of their shared love of sports. But it wasn't long before John showed his true colors. Because of their shared love of sports.
Ashley:But it wasn't long before John showed his true colors. He rarely worked, spent his days posted up in front of the TV drinking beer and verbally abused Frank and his mom. He took on the disciplinarian role in the home and punished Frank for every minor transgression. If he got an answer wrong on his homework, john ripped it up and told him how stupid he was. His other favorite forms of punishment included forcing Frank to copy words from the dictionary, grounding him for weeks on end and not allowing him to eat dinner with the rest of the family.
Remi:Copying words from the dictionary, just like fill out pages 88 through 102?.
Ashley:Yeah, kind of like copy words from a chalkboard or write a sentence on a chalkboard over and over and over and over again.
Remi:That sounds terrible.
Ashley:Well, and then the physical abuse started. John typically hit Frank when Margaret was out of the house and told her the bumps and bruises were hockey injuries. When she finally did find out what was going on, she blamed Frank for upsetting John. After a particularly violent altercation when Frank was 13 or 14, John kicked him out of the house, all while his mom watched and made no attempt to intervene, with nowhere else to go.
Ashley:Frank moved in with his dad, who was now a full-blown cocaine and opiate addict. He enrolled in a new school but dropped out after. He became the target of a gang called the Junior Black Mafia and he actually witnessed this gang beat up another white kid at the school who he had started to form a friendship with. After living with his dad for a few weeks, frank called his aunt and uncle to see if he could spend the summer with them at the farm. He was most excited to see his cousin, sean, since they were the same age and spent a lot of time together when they were younger. But he hardly recognized his cousin. The second he walked in the door, his head was shaved and he only wore combat boots, a similar style sported by Sean's friends who Frank met later that night. But it was the bedroom that underwent the most drastic transformation. The curtains were replaced with confeder, confederate and swastika flags and there were newspaper articles about neo-Nazis all over the walls. Nonetheless, he accepted his cousin and had fun going to parties and drinking with his friends until the wee hours of the morning.
Ashley:Two guys that particularly caught Frank's eye were Bob Reynolds and Tim Kleinschmidt, and I'll take this opportunity to note that most of this information that I'm getting about Frank came from his autobiography called the Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead, and it does note that a lot of the names have been changed. Bob and Tim were in their late teens and obsessed with white supremacy. They introduced Frank to identity theology, a racist and anti-Semitic doctrine whose followers believe white people are God's chosen ones. During their late night drinking sessions, they pointed out Bible verses they claimed proved their viewpoints and frequently brought up how Frank was targeted by a black gang at his prior school. To piggyback off Frank's experiences with the gang, they stressed that those youth were violent for one reason and one reason only because they were black and violence was in their DNA. Although Frank questioned Bob and Tim's teachings, they seemed to have an answer to everything he asked. They also appeared to really care about him and were interested in what he had to say.
Frank Meeink:And I loved it. I loved it. I became the little guy that hung around with the crazy stories, and these guys would always talk to me. Man, I just thoroughly enjoyed being around them.
Remi:They made a loner kid feel accepted from the sounds of it, which is a similar tactic a lot of cults use as well.
Ashley:Frank made his full transition after a punk rock concert that culminated in him kicking a skater kid in the face at Bob's urging. A few days later, he shaved his head and was gifted his first pair of combat boots. For the first time in his life, he felt like he mattered.
Remi:I want to chime in here really quick. When I was a teenager I went to a lot of punk shows and things like that and there was always more of a level of safety and respect, like if you were in the pit or anything like that people would pick you up and there really wasn't this violence in the air. But it sounds like these Nazi gatherings. There was always some sort of air of violence and I also have to say Nazi punk music is fucking terrible.
Ashley:Well, I think now might be a good time for a super quick history lesson. The term skinhead came into common use in Britain in the late 1960s. At the time it referred to young men who shaved their heads in protest of consumerism and open drug use. Although skinheads were notoriously violent, they weren't yet defined by racism. In the late 1970s, ian Stewart, the lead singer of a hard mod band named Screwdriver that was popular with Britain's skinheads, published that he was affiliated with a neo-Nazi organization called National Front. This split Britain's skinhead culture into two groups neo-Nazis and Sharps, which stands for skinheads against racial prejudice and are often compared to Antifa. Today, skinhead culture crossed the Atlantic Ocean in the late 1980s and rapidly grew with support from white supremacists. Romantic Violence. The first American neo-Nazi group formed in Chicago in 1984. By the mid-90s these groups essentially acted as gangs, since they built alliances and set claims to different areas of major cities.
Ashley:Frank moved back in with his dad after spending a month or two in Lancaster. Frank Sr didn't acknowledge his son's new appearance, but an uncle was quick to tell him that his friends and beliefs were full of shit. After Frank greeted him with a Sig Heil and Nazi salute A few days after coming home, he met and became fast friends with another skinhead kid named Louis Licinzi. A few days later, they introduced themselves to a dozen 20-somethings with shaved heads that they stumbled across in the parking lot of a potato chip factory. Four of the men were members of Uprise, a violent neo-Nazi group from Philly. By the end of the summer, frank and Louis decided to form their own neo-Nazi crew, which they later named Strike Force. Frank recruited members to his and other subsequent crews for the next several years. He did this by targeting high school kids who were fed up with being bullied by skaters, sharps or ethnic gang members. This was a successful tactic, as these kids were, like he once was, outcasts with anger issues who were tired of being mistreated. Strike force provided them with what they came to view as an appropriate outlet for their rage.
Ashley:At the start of the 1989 school year, frank moved back in with his mom, who was now two months pregnant, with her and John's second daughter. But the reunion was far from a happy one. Although John didn't seem interested in beating him anymore, both adults were constantly strung out on opiates. A few months later, frank recruited his cousin Jimmy into his crew. By this time word about Strikeforce had spread, resulting in up to 20 neo-Nazi youth visiting the city nearly every weekend. By happenstance, the teens met John Cook, one of the most legendary skinheads on the East Coast at the time. One weekend he invited Frank and Louie to his old farmhouse outside of Reading. This compound was known as the Invisible Empire of the Ku Klux Klan. An elderly leader told the boys that they could join if they had their parents sign permission slips, since they were minors and apparently the KKK cares about consent.
Remi:Whoa, whoa, whoa. They have permission slips that they were giving out to children to have their parents sign.
Ashley:Yes, per Frank.
Remi:I'm sorry, but you are the worst parent if you signed any of those permission slips.
Ashley:Well, Frank and Louie actually forged these signatures and ended up taking their clan vows the next week.
Remi:Not surprising that the KKK wasn't following up on these permission slips.
Ashley:The boys went to the farm at least once every few months for the next two years. While there, they went through Nazi seminary classes and learned how to use semi-automatic weapons. Before the end of the school year, frank was expelled for beating up a black kid and kicked out of his mom's house yet again. For the next two years he partied most nights, bounced around from house to house and got expelled from two or three more schools. One night, while hitchhiking to who knows where, he was picked up by a middle-aged man who forced him to give him a blowjob at gunpoint After being dumped on the side of the road. When it was over, he went to his dad's bar, told him what happened and got the fatherly advice of his dad's bar. Told him what happened and got the fatherly advice of bad shit happens.
Ashley:As Frank spent more and more time away from school, he threw himself into strike force. The ragtag bunch spray-painted swastikas on buildings, yelled SIG HAL to announce their presence and prowled the streets for people to assault. After being homeless for about a year, he met Scott Winham, a co-founder of the neo-Nazi group Uprise. After Scott was released from Rikers, frank joined Winham and several other adult Nazis as they assaulted multiple gay and black men. That night Everyone was arrested after a particularly brutal attack of a homeless man. Frank's mom could have signed him out of juvie the next morning, but he didn't hear a word from her for two months. His lawyer managed to get the assault charges dropped, but he still had to live with his mom while on probation. Since he was convicted of underage drinking and a few other minor charges, he violated probation and left his mom's house after about a week. Frank and Louis were kicked out of the KKK in the summer of 1991, seemingly because their reckless behavior was giving the more organized group a bad rap or unwanted attention.
Remi:Okay, the second part I buy.
Ashley:In an attempt to legitimize Strikeforce, Frank struck a deal with the Eastern Nazi Alliance, which gave his group more recognition in Philly. With Louis' help, Strikeforce rapidly grew to 40 members. In addition to drinking like a fish and patrolling the streets for people to brutalize, Frank discovered another interest tattoos. Over the next few years he inked, Made in Philly, across the front of his head, a swastika on the front of his head, a swastika on the side of his neck, skinhead, across his knuckles, sharp killer inside his bottom lip, a South African swastika on his forearm and Sig Heil on the back of his head.
Remi:I would bet that these types of tattoos are probably amongst the most common to be removed later in life.
Ashley:Frank decided it was time to get out of Philly as soon as he turned 17,. Since he was wanted for his ever-increasing probation violations, he contacted an adult neo-Nazi he knew, who arranged for him to stay with five members in Indianapolis. He spent the next four months in a boarded-up safe house with these men as they made plans to rob banks to fund a race war in Yugoslavia. Although his housemates rarely left their hideout unless it was to commit racially motivated crimes, Frank started spending weekends in Springfield with a few skinheads he befriended. After meeting a girl named Jessica in October, he decided to move there and began organizing a skinhead crew, again primarily targeting kids who were fed up with being bullied.
Ashley:The press took notice after about a dozen suburban kids shaved their heads. A local newspaper ran a story about the Nazi threat, which included an interview with Frank in which he gave his real name. Aryan nationalist groups started contacting him soon after to encourage him to continue his work and give him advice on how to attract more media attention. The primary way he did this was by filling out an application to get airtime on a local network run by the Sangamon State University Telecommunications Department. To the program director's horror, Frank called his show the Reich and featured SNL-style opening monologues, white power songs and racist spoofs. Springfield residents flooded the department with demands the show be banned, but there was nothing that could be done since it technically met all the studio's loosey-goosey guidelines.
Remi:That is insane studio's loosey-goosey guidelines.
Ashley:That is insane, I imagine. After this the department redefined and rewrote their policies. Frank's home was raided in mid-December 1992. After the police got word, he paid for a shipment of illegally imported guns. It doesn't sound like they found much of anything since he was released from custody. Soon after. The following week, frank and two of his friends went to the home of the sharp Frank Thottrat at him out. They brutally assaulted him for the next several hours and filmed the entire ordeal. He was arrested at the university's recording studio and charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon. A week later, this time, frank was charged as an adult since he used a weapon in commission of a violent felony Because he was only 17,.
Ashley:He was held in segregation for the first month. Shortly after being moved to general population, he started reading the Bible out of boredom and learned his girlfriend Jessica was pregnant. Although the other inmates avoided him at first, several Black and Latino prisoners soon invited him to play spades and told him everything he needed to know about the Illinois prison system. He found another unsuspected ally in a Black inmate named Abel, a reformed drug kingpin turned born-again Christian. Abel invited Frank to his nightly Bible study and although he was reluctant to cross racial lines yet again, he accepted and went almost every night. Frank spoke to his mom for the first time since he left Philly after he rejected a plea offer of 15 years in prison. Against his lawyer's advice, he remained optimistic about his case and opted for a jury trial, and there was a lot of evidence against this guy. Not only was the victim going to testify, but Frank's two friends were going to testify against him and they recorded the whole thing.
Remi:Yeah, they are about as guilty as it gets.
Ashley:Well, right before the trial was scheduled to start, frank was given a much more attractive offer three to five years. He was moved to the Graham Correctional Institution a week after accepting the deal, complete with toiletries, candy bars and two small joints from an inmate named Scooter, who his cellmate told him was in charge of the bikers at the facility and a spokesperson for the Aryan Brotherhood. Frank met Scooter on the yard a couple days later. The Aryan Brotherhood wasn't going to let Frank join the gang, but they did promise to keep an eye out for him for the duration of his sentence.
Ashley:Frank was transferred to a few other prisons throughout his incarceration. Although leaders of the white supremacist groups told him that he could go to them if he needed anything, his real confidants were inmates affiliated with a few Black and Latino gangs. In addition to regular spades games, he joined a Black football team and orchestrated a kitchen food running scheme with a Black inmate that would come to be his closest prison friend. These were the people who congratulated him after he learned. His daughter, riley, was born in November 1993. Not a single person from the Aryan Brotherhood or another hate group. Frank secured an early prison release due to overcrowding on March 6, 1994. So he spent about 18 months or around there in prison. A little longer than that, closer to two years, if you count the time he was in jail. He assumed he would resume control of the Springfield skinhead crew, but quickly gave up hope of that, since everyone disbanded while he was away, without a group or purpose, he smoked weed and drank every night. He tried to reconcile with Jessica, but his jealousy, infidelity accusations and anger issues resulted in her wanting little to do with him. She did let him meet Riley and he visited her almost every day. As his drinking and verbal aggression towards Jessica increased, she started restricting his visits with Riley, which in turn worsened his depression. He decided to leave Springfield after Jessica reneged on her promise to let him see Riley for Easter, although it meant he would be in clear violation of his parole. There was nothing left for him in Springfield, so he went home for the first time in three years. To his surprise, his mom warmly greeted him at the train station.
Ashley:19-year-old Frank planned to dive right back into the Nazi scene. The second he returned to Philly. His cousin Jimmy, who ran Strikeforce while he was away, hosted a welcome home party the next night. But many of his former friends, including Louis who he formed Strikeforce with, had since left the scene. With the realization that his crew was no longer something he recognized, he distanced himself and spent most of his nights with the second and Porter boys the gang his since-deceased cousin Nick associated with. After being back in Philly for a few months, jimmy summoned Frank to a meeting with a group of skinheads from New York who wanted to form an alliance with Strikeforce. The meeting turned violent after one of the visitors insulted Frank's daughter's heritage, causing him to walk out on the meeting completely. After that, most of Strikeforce steered clear of him, with fewer connections to the white supremacist movement than ever before. He began to reflect on his time in prison and he realized that all the good memories he had weren't with white inmates at all.
Frank Meeink:So when I got out and I started to hang back around with some of the neo-Nazi groups again and I would hear just people go, you know, all black people are this way. And I was like man, like I really shared some intimate things with some of them dudes in there, just life stuff and they weren't all that way right. So I was like, okay, to stay part of this neo-Nazi group, I'm not going to preach about black people anymore or Latino people, because I became friends with a bunch of Latino guys in prison too. I was just like I'm just not going to preach on that stuff because I just don't believe it.
Ashley:As soon as Frank started to question the racist ideals behind white supremacy, he took notice of other irrefutable evidence that confirmed he was on the right track. For example, he began learning about DNA and how only a few links in the chain contributed to ethnic differences. He also read a news story about a white man who was only alive because a black man donated an organ to this complete stranger.
Frank Meeink:Human nature and science consistently kept proving me wrong at the times when I was questioning things. You know, when I was getting out of the movement. It was the same time as the OJ Simpson trial, so I was reading about this DNA thing because I really never knew much about it which started to go right against everything. I just learned that scientifically, we're all different and that God made us all different.
Remi:I believe Frank has just discovered science-based evidence and facts.
Ashley:Yeah, more people need to start relying on science-based evidence and facts when they are coming to their own conclusions.
Remi:Yeah, I'm a big proponent of both of those.
Ashley:Although Frank no longer viewed himself as racist, there was one group he still viewed as inferior Jewish people. As fate would have it, this religious bias was also soon tested. Unsurprisingly, frank's tattoos impacted his employment prospects, but he secured a time-limited job moving furniture for an antiques dealer who told him about Keith Goldstein, a Jewish man who owned a furniture store and needed help moving a bunch of inventory for an antiques dealer who told him about Keith Goldstein, a Jewish man who owned a furniture store and needed help moving a bunch of inventory for an upcoming sale.
Frank Meeink:Well, yeah, I had a swastika tattooed on the side of my neck, so definitely not good people skills right there. And a friend of mine got me a job doing antique furniture in Philadelphia and the guy that owned the company happened to be a Jewish guy. He wasn't a yarmulke Jewish, he was religiously Jewish. He was just the kind of the ugh leavey type of guy. He's just super funny and he hired me on and he was just one of the guys in my life that just became a mentor.
Ashley:Both men told this third party that the arrangement could work as long as they didn't have to talk to the other one. Little did Frank know this would be the final person to show him everything he once believed in was wrong.
Frank Meeink:Always said good things about me, even when I was down on myself, and I just remember I always kind of looked up to him, even after working at the company. For a while, after working at the company, I really started to look up to him and found out how he started the business. And here he's telling me that I remind him of him and that how street smart I am and how I have, you know, great head on my shoulders and I just remember, you know, not wanting him to be my dad, but I was just grateful to have this other human being in my life.
Remi:It is truly amazing what a bit of kindness and encouragement can do to a person kindness and encouragement can do to a person.
Ashley:Frank officially resigned from Strikeforce after he was jumped by a group of Nazis. A few months later, Although his life seemed to be going in the right direction, he continued to struggle with depression and became dependent on substances to the point where he was using alcohol, cocaine and acid almost every night. Was using alcohol, cocaine and acid almost every night. To pay for his growing habit, he began selling small amounts of the drugs, in addition to Xanax and Percocet, from his mom. Frank's life drastically changed following the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995. Feeling compelled to share what he knew about the National Alliance's potential involvement, he found himself in an FBI office and told an agent everything he had been through, while emphasizing that he refused to provide the agent with specific names.
Frank Meeink:Right after that all happened, right after I changed, probably six months later, the Oklahoma City bombing happened and you know, for people that don't know, that is tied back to the movement. It is tied back to the same people that I used to run with and I didn't know Timothy McVeigh, but there was this picture of this dead little girl in this fireman's arms when he's running down the street with her Just kept killing me, like that picture just kept killing me and killing me. So I went to the FBI. Like that picture just kept killing me and killing me.
Ashley:So I went to the FBI. Frank was called back to FBI headquarters a week later and asked if he was willing to speak with the Anti-Defamation League, which I'm going to refer to as ADL throughout the rest of this podcast. The ADL is a non-governmental organization founded to combat anti-Semitism, bigotry and discrimination. It was considered the primary enemy of the white supremacy movement For decades. They tracked the Nazi party's every move, monitored every publication, documented every crime and profiled well-known members. Since Frank viewed the ADL so unfavorably for the last five years, it took him a few days to come around to the idea. When he did, he met Barry Morrison in a hotel lobby. Barry was actually well aware of Frank, since he profiled him a few years ago. He quizzed Frank on aspects of his life and when he was satisfied that Frank was who he claimed to be, the question shifted to those about why he left the Nazi party.
Ashley:He was called into a meeting with ADL staff. Less than a week later, frank reiterated everything. He told the FBI and Barry, again stressing that he wasn't interested in being a rat. But that's not what the ADL was interested in. They wanted to know the root cause of his hate. Why was he so violent? Why were certain victims targeted? Why did he leave the movement when he did? What caused him to change?
Remi:They were trying to understand the hate and find out where it had come from and find out how it can go away too.
Ashley:Because having that knowledge is more useful in prevention. Having that knowledge is more useful in prevention. Frank returned to life as usual after his meeting with the ADL. With his employer, Keith's guidance, he opened a small booth at a consignment mall which he named Riley's Antiques after his daughter, and he sold small antique doll chairs to tourists.
Remi:That's a very niche market.
Ashley:Although his goal was to send the profits to Riley, he spent most of it on drugs. He also got a new job at a used furniture dealership closer to home. Kyle Hirsch, the owner of the store, also ran a halfway house for recovering addicts and recognized Frank's condition. Because Frank was ambivalent about changing, kyle didn't talk to him directly about treatment until it started to impact his work Around. This time Frank met and promptly moved in with Maria Salareno. He was contemplating how to end their whirlwind romance when she told him she was pregnant.
Ashley:A month or so later, barry Morrison called with Frank's first speaking engagement, his daughter's seventh grade class. The talk did not go as Frank hoped. He broke down in sobs a few minutes in and was convinced that he scarred the kids for life. But Barry called him into his office a week later and gave him a stack of letters written by the class. This was the first time he believed he might actually have a story worth telling. Within a few months, barry and other members of the ADL were driving him to speaking engagements all around Philly. Maria was still in her first trimester of pregnancy when Frank's roommate skipped town with his half of the rent. The young couple lived separately but rarely saw or spoke to each other. A few weeks after their last phone call, frank met 16-year-old Nina, and it wasn't long before she too was pregnant.
Remi:Come on man.
Ashley:By the time his third child was born in 1997, 21-year-old Frank was speaking on behalf of the ADL at least once a week. The more speeches he gave, the more he realized playing on the interracial football league in prison played a major role in his ideological transformation. To recreate this in his community, he wanted to bring black and white kids from different parts of Philly together by putting them in an environment where they were forced to work together the hockey rink. He picked hockey not only because it was a sport near and dear to his heart, but he believed it was important for the kids to not have certain athletic advantages when they signed up. Barry Morrison loved the idea, and so did the Philadelphia Flyers. The local hockey team Harmony through hockey was officially greenlit. The ADL agreed to provide educational materials and volunteers. The Flyers supplied the equipment and helped with publicity, and the Philly Department of Recreation let the organization use an ice rink free of charge, with more to follow if the idea took off. To Frank's surprise, he was nominated as head coach. There was just one problem how could he stand in front of kids telling them not to hate each other, when there were reminders of his prior views tattooed all over his body. After a few days, barry found a doctor who lost family in the Holocaust and agreed to remove all of his tattoos free of charge.
Ashley:The first season of Harmony Through Hockey consisted of 20 kids, 10 black and 10 white. Every afternoon, frank coached them and talked to them about their life experiences. On some days, the Flyers sent their trainers and gave the kids free hockey tickets. Before the season ended, a local TV show called Philly After Midnight asked Frank to talk about Harmony Through Hockey on air. Right before it started he learned he wasn't the only guest that night. Instead, he would share the stage with the black professor from a local university. Instead, he would share the stage with the black professor from a local university. It was immediately clear that the interviewer had no intention of talking about the hockey league. It was an ambush, but Frank kept his composure throughout the ADL hoped to spread the word about Harmony through hockey and began booking Frank for speaking engagements across the country. One of these included a week trip to California. Frank spent the week meeting with various groups and officials and gave lectures at universities, a conference and a fundraiser. The trip went well until the last night when he raided the minibar and hit the town in search of a party. Barry called Frank into his office to address the $500 liquor bill as soon as he got back. This was the first time Frank told anyone that he might have a problem, but he wasn't yet ready to admit it to himself. After this meeting he went straight to his mom's house in search of opiates, since she was out of Percocet. She introduced him to something a little bit stronger Oxycontin. He ignored his employer's suggestion about looking into AA or NA meetings until Nia left him and refused to let him see their one-year-old son.
Ashley:Frank then moved into a halfway house after he completed a 30-day residential treatment program. While there he received an interview request from hard copy, since a new movie was coming out that sounded a lot like his life. Frank had done an informational interview with a movie producer about a year earlier, but nothing came of it, since the producer isn't listed in the credits for American History X. Since the producer isn't listed in the credits for American History X, he doesn't think anyone stole his life story. Rather, american History X is the story of every skinhead to some extent. The hard copy interview aired the same day the film debuted. Overnight the ADL's phone was ringing off the hook with speaking requests. Frank got an agent and was speaking all over the country three to four times a month. His only rule was that the bookings couldn't interfere with Harmony through hockey, which had now grown to 80 kids and multiple teams at several different rinks. He was also heavily sought out for media appearances. He participated in a VH1 documentary about kids and hate groups, mtv's Stop the Violence campaign and a taping of the Today Show with Katie Couric.
Ashley:Despite his growing success, he continued to struggle with addiction and stopped going to AANA meetings. He typically got clean for a few weeks, relapsed and sobered up just in time for public appearances. This is a trend that continued for years. In 1999 or 2000, frank traveled to New York to speak at a juvenile detention center. While there, a friend introduced him to Valerie Doyle, a systems analyst for a big company in Washington DC. A systems analysis for a big company in Washington DC. Although they came from totally different walks of life, they immediately hit it off, talked on the phone every day and spent weekends together.
Ashley:She moved to Philly about six months after they started dating. For the first time in years, his life was heading in the direction he wanted it to go. He avoided drugs and alcohol, had a job he loved and was rebuilding the relationships with the mother of his three kids, all who got along great with his new girlfriend. Things were going really well until he wanted to go out with Valerie and her friends one night. But he needed something to take the edge off. Since he knew he couldn't drink, he stopped by his mom's house for a painkiller or two.
Ashley:He checked into a second rehab facility after Valerie began noticing the daily deductions from their shared bank account. He relapsed less than 12 hours after he was discharged. Before long he swapped OxyContin for heroin and checked into his third rehab facility a month before he married Valerie on September 15, 2001. He relapsed a week after their wedding was kicked out of the house and started crashing at a crack house. One day Valerie tracked him down and told him she was moving to Iowa to be closer to her parents, since there was no reason for her to stay in Philly anymore. She gave him half of their shared finances and cash which he spent on drugs. Within the month he checked into rehab again and agreed to move to Iowa with Valerie. In a last-ditch effort to save their marriage In Iowa, frank got a job at a moving company. In between public speaking appearances, he started mixing downers with meth after his co-workers introduced him to the concoction.
Remi:One day, on his lunch break, he was arrested under suspicion of driving under the influence.
Ashley:He was transported to a hospital shortly after booking for treatment of a suspected overdose. He woke up in the ICU three days later. Frank moved in with his AA sponsor after he was released from the hospital after about a week, with Bob's help, he began to impose structure on his life by focusing on little decisions like making your bed and eating healthy and just really taking sobriety one day at a time. Thinking he was cured, he moved back in with Valerie against Bob's advice and relapsed two weeks later. She probably would have left him for good this time if she wasn't pregnant. He relapsed again a month after their son, nick, was born in December 2003. Frank continued on like this until September 2005, when he checked into his last rehab facility after an aborted suicide attempt and started writing his memoir. A month later attempt and started writing his memoir a month later, frank's mom sought therapy for opiate addiction, divorced John in 2007, and apologized to Frank for not doing so sooner. John went missing right before the divorce was finalized and was found in a morgue a few weeks later. The cause of death appeared to be a heart attack. Frank accepted a position as marketing coordinator for the American Hockey League team called the Iowa Stars in 2007. He was promoted to director of fan development a year later. He and Valerie had a baby girl in 2009, at which time he resigned from his job to focus on raising his children and coaching Iowa's Harmony through Hockey League. He spent time with all of his other children during their summer vacations.
Ashley:As of the publishing of his memoir in 2010, he continued to do national speaking tours and maintain sobriety. By happenstance, he ran into the young man he assaulted back in 1992 and formally apologized. Ran into the young man he assaulted back in 1992 and formally apologized. I found a few articles about what Frank has been up to in the last few years. Unfortunately, he relapsed around 2019 after the breakdown of his marriage and death of his son, matt. His mother also died from a fentanyl overdose around this time. While in recovery, he met a Jewish rabbi, asked him to be a sponsor and still calls him every morning.
Ashley:After completing rehab, he moved to Long Beach and started working as a mental health promoter for SHARE, a charity funded by the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health. In 2020, he testified before Congress about neo-Nazi efforts to infiltrate police departments. In March 2024, an at-home DNA test revealed he had Jewish ancestors, a heritage he fully embraced. He studies the Torah three times a week, goes to synagogue twice a week, prays three times a day and keeps kosher. Frank volunteered his time after the LA wildfires by helping displaced addicts. His organization helped people access food, clothing, medications and transportation. He also helped people search and find foster homes for missing pets. He turned 50 this year and that is the true story of Tony Kaye's American History X. What'd you think, remy?
Remi:Well, I think it is obvious that this is a completely different story than the one from American History X, but it also has a lot of similarities. I think the story of a skinhead being indoctrinated is a pretty familiar tale and I noticed a lot of consistencies in both stories. I can see how the inspiration would have been taken from it and I can see how this story is almost a universal story.
Ashley:And Frank would have been working with the ADL for many years by the time this movie came out, and speaking about his prior association and his transformation in prison. There's no way that doesn't come from this guy's story. There's just no way.
Remi:And I must say I prefer the real life story's more gradual, naturalistic approach to how this person undid his thinking. It took many, many years. It wasn't one specific event, it was many events accumulating over a lifetime, and I think that is a far more realistic and interesting approach than the movie's more instantaneous flip that happened instantaneous flip that happened.
Ashley:I do also wish they would have included more about Edward Norton's time in prison in this. From what you described from the movie, yes, he made friends with a black inmate, but it sounded to me like what really caused him to change wasn't the friendship he formed the one friendship he formed but really it was the betrayal he felt about being raped. So I think that that's kind of a disservice that they portrayed it that way instead of it being. He changed his views because he was getting to know people different than him that he used to hate, rather than him being betrayed by the people he viewed as allies.
Remi:I agree it kind of simplifies things when in reality I think the story you just told is much more relatable to a lot of people. So I will knock the movie for that and honestly I would have preferred a longer cut. I think we could have added more to American History X with a lot of things that you had mentioned. It would have been interesting to see Derek going from this shaggy haired high school kid into someone, shaving their head and getting a massive swastika tattoo on their chest. Like there is a pretty big leap there from the Edward Norton we see on the news talking about his dead father to the one talking to the skinheads in the parking lot of a Mexican grocery store, which is apparently supposed to be like one year later or maybe even less than that. So I think fleshing that out would have been pretty interesting. And same thing goes for his time in prison. I think a more gradual approach to him unlearning these things is more realistic and more interesting than going for a shock value approach to it.
Remi:And we were also talking about the ending with Danny being shot and the original ending where Derek goes to the bathroom and shaves his head again, basically returning to his skinhead ways and both of us agree that that would have been the complete wrong decision in this film. And the more we've discussed it, I almost think that Danny dying was the wrong decision in this film. I think we needed to show their redemption. I wanted to see these men grow as people and struggle and overcome that and I think that would have been more interesting than going for Danny dying in almost an ironic way with the student from the day earlier. So I would prefer a real take on this. But I still love American History X and I think it is a powerful, brilliant film but could have been longer and a bit more fleshed out brilliant film but could have been longer and a bit more fleshed out.
Ashley:I know this is like probably the only time we'll ever say we wish a movie was longer, because movies are just so long nowadays, but I cannot imagine what the 95 minute cut was like. That just does not seem enough time to tackle these issues. Well, with that, let's get into our final segment of the show. We're going to forego our objection of the week, since this is very different from any episode we've done. It's not a carbon copy, or trying to be a carbon copy, of Frank Mink's life. We're foregoing our objection, but we are still going to do our verdict.
Narrator:At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will deliver a verdict based on the film's accuracy. If the film is an honest portrayal of the events, then it will earn a not guilty verdict. If the adaptation is mostly factual but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars.
Ashley:Remy, why don't you kick us off with the verdict? What do you give American History X and Y?
Remi:I think we are both going to be in agreement on this one. I can't give it a guilty verdict. I can't give it a guilty verdict. I can't give it a not guilty verdict. So this is landing squarely in the mistrial category in my eyes. Like you said earlier, this story is not directly taken from the account we just heard, but the story of a skinhead is a tale as old as time. Young teens are indoctrinated, feeling like outcasts, seeking out acceptance and camaraderie and finding it in a certain type of group.
Ashley:And with that being said, we're not saying that there aren't people out there that are part of these groups, that are racist and have been racist for a long time. What we're saying is there is also a selection of individuals who are impressed upon by outside influences at a young age that have a harder time resisting.
Remi:I think that's true for hate in general. I don't think hate is something that naturally occurs in people. I think that it is something that is learned, whether or not it's from a young age or in your teen years. It is something that you learn. It's not something that you're born with, in my opinion, and I am firmly under the belief that it's something you can unlearn as well. So this story is a powerful one. I feel like the true story is probably far more relatable to people out there who have struggled with addiction or conflicting emotions about beliefs. So this is clearly a story not taken directly from Frank Mink, but I can definitely see the influence on American History X. What about you, ashley?
Ashley:I agree. I think it would be easy to just say guilty and move on, but I'm also going to give it a mistrial, just based on clear influence from Frank Ming's story and the overarching reasons why these people grew to hate others. Yes, some of them had some negative experience with bullying others yes, some of them had some negative experience with bullying, but really the main reason was because they were kids that were in pain and needed an outlet to direct their rage. And there are some other little similarities that I saw, but there's no way that influences from Frank Mink's story weren't taken.
Remi:Well, there you have it, everybody Two mistrial votes, a rarity for this season of our podcast. Now, what do we have coming up next? Ashley, I know that there's a certain letter of the alphabet that these two films have in common, but beyond that, they are vastly, vastly different.
Ashley:As we mentioned at the start of this episode, we are closing out this season with Spike Lee's film Malcolm X starring Denzel Washington, and I have never seen this movie, so I am very excited to hear about it. We chose these because they're two stories of individuals on the opposite ends of racial belief spectrums and we just thought it would be interesting, and we hope you guys find it interesting as well.
Remi:And I've seen the film before. It's a brilliant film and I do look forward to talking about it two weeks from now.
Ashley:And, similar to Edward Norton, it is an Oscar snub. Many, many, many people believe that this should have been the movie that Denzel won an Oscar for Best Actor.
Remi:I agree with that assessment. You and I watched Scent of a Woman with Al Pacino who beat Denzel for the Best Actor award that year, and I think we can both safely say we were not super big fans of that performance.
Ashley:And before we go, to give you guys a little teaser for what is to come, we will end with our trailer, but until then, Court is adjourned.
Remi:He was a follower who became a leader.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):You're not an American. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us A follower who became a leader. You're not an American. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us.
Tony Kaye:He brought honor to disobedience. I suggest you look outside that window.
Dr. Sweeney (American History - X):You've been laying down and bowing down for 400 years. I think it's time to stand up. All right, break it up. You got what you wanted. No, I'm not satisfied. That's too much power for one man to have. And a voice to a people who long to be heard. You're. Ben Hoodway, ben Boozled Melis, fred You're saying you're anti-white. No, you're saying I'm anti-white, I'm sorry, betty, I haven't been the best husband I love you. Do you advocate violence? No sir.
