Criminal Adaptations
Criminal Adaptations is a True Crime/Movie Review Podcast discussing some of your favorite films, and the true crime stories that inspired them. With hosts Remi, who spent over a decade working in the film and television industry, and Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator. They discuss a new movie each week and compare the film to the real life events that the film is based on.
Criminal Adaptations
A Cry in the Dark (Evil Angels)
In this episode, we dive into the true story behind one of the most infamous trials in Australian history: the Lindy Chamberlain case. We compare the real events surrounding the disappearance of baby Azaria Chamberlain in 1980 with the Hollywood Adaptation, Fred Schepisi’s A Cry in the Dark (1988; also known as Evil Angels), starring Meryl Streep. How accurately did the film portray Lindy and Michael Chamberlain, the media frenzy, and the controversial trial that followed? Join us as we explore the facts, myths, and lasting cultural significance of a story that shocked the world and still sparks debate today.
Primary Sources:
- Bryson, John. Evil Angels: The Case of Lindy Chamberlain. Summit Books (1987).
- The Guardian (2012)
- The Guardian (2017)
- BBC (2023)
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Theme: DARKNESS (feat. EdKara) by Ghost148
Welcome to Criminal Adaptations, the show where we take a look at some of your favorite movies and the true crime stories that inspired them. I'm Ashley. I'm a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator in the state of Oregon.
Remi:And I'm Remy. I spent over a decade working in the film and television industry in Los Angeles, California.
Ashley:And welcome back everyone. Thanks for tuning in for our third episode of season five. I'm very excited to talk about this case. Remy, how are you doing today?
Remi:I'm doing pretty well. We are currently on vacation in Germany right now, so guten tag to all of our German listeners out there.
Ashley:Yes, we do check the statistics and I know we do have several German listeners that tune in every single week without fail. So hopefully after our visit we will have more.
Remi:Yes, we finally got out that way for Oktoberfest, and it was a blast, to say the least.
Ashley:Well, Remy, what are we going to be talking about today?
Remi:Today we will be discussing a tragic case of a mother falsely accused of murdering her own baby, which somehow got turned into a catchphrase which some of our audience may recognize from a 1991 episode of Seinfeld titled the Stranded. I have lost my fiance, the poor baby.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Maybe the dingo ate your baby. What the dingo ate your baby. What the dingo ate your baby.
Remi:That was, of course, Julia Louise Dreyfuss as Elaine, the iconic female counterpart to Jerry and all his guy buddies on the show. Had you seen this episode before, Ashley? I know you're not really a Seinfeld fan.
Ashley:You know, believe it or not, I've never watched a full episode of Seinfeld.
Remi:You were more of a Friends person, I'm guessing.
Ashley:I definitely was. Seinfeld was a little bit before my time and when I got into Friends I know they were kind of both going on at the same time, even though Seinfeld obviously started sooner. But Seinfeld just had too much of a dry humor for me. I'm sure I'd like it if I watched it now, but I had not seen this clip. No.
Remi:Had you ever heard that catchphrase before? I've heard it a few places, I know.
Ashley:I know I have heard it a few times. I can't think of a specific clip or anything, but it was something that has been in popular culture for so so, so, so long.
Remi:And at some point I knew it was about a case, but I definitely was unaware of all. I have seen this catchphrase said on several other programs throughout the years and feature films, but I honestly had no idea that it was taken from a real life event until maybe the past five, ten years or so. It's pretty recent and it is sort of crazy that something that has become basically a joke is based on such a tragic, tragic event.
Ashley:Yeah, I never really appreciated how fucked up it is that it is treated as a joke until going through all the research of this case. In the end, we and when I say we, I mean the popular zeitgeist are making light of a tragic disappearing and death of a nine-week-old baby and the demonification of the mom, who was completely innocent Spoiler.
Remi:Yes, today we will be discussing Lindy Chamberlain and the Chamberlain family, a woman whose baby was stolen and killed by a dingo in Australia and I know that can sound a bit far-fetched, and that's exactly what the people of Australia thought. And this woman was horrifically persecuted and blamed for the death of her baby when in reality it was taken by a dingo. And I have to admit, until really really recently I had no idea what a dingo was. I thought it was a type of kangaroo, but it turns out it's more of an Australian coyote that's sort of colored like a Shibu Inu.
Ashley:And by very, very recently he means a week before we started filming this podcast. We were in the car on our way to a friend's birthday and you asked me if I knew what a dingo was, and I said absolutely. And you were surprised that I knew what it was.
Remi:Yes, by really recently, I mean within the past couple of weeks. I am admitting to my idiocy in this specific area. I do not know a ton about Australian wildlife, but I do hope to visit Australia one day. It's been on my bucket list for quite some time, so maybe we will get out there someday, ashley.
Ashley:This movie also marks one of two movies that we have on our list that I have just been itching to cover so long, because they both star the amazing Meryl Streep.
Remi:Possibly the greatest actress of our time. Do you have a favorite Meryl Streep film? Ashley?
Ashley:I have two, and it is impossible for me to choose between them. Those two are Death Becomes Her, which I just love. I have a very good friend who, back in high school, introduced me to all of these quirky kind of sci-fi movies. She showed me this one, earth Girls Are Easy and Mars Attacks, all of which are just so, so great. The other favorite is, of course, devil Wears Prada. Her Miranda Priestly is just iconic, and I personally can't wait to see her in the second one that is coming out soon.
Remi:You literally took the words right out of my mouth. I think the first time I consciously remember seeing Meryl Streep in a film was Death Becomes Her, which was directed by Robert Zemeckis and also stars Goldie Hawn and Bruce Willis. I don't know if I'd categorize it as a sci-fi. It's sort of a grotesque love triangle, immortality, revenge comedy and it will always have a special place in my heart. But yes, she is fabulous in the Devil Wears Prada and I'm going to give an honorable mention to her performance in Doubt as well.
Ashley:She's just so good. Because of her range she can play the most serious of roles, which she has been recognized by the Academy time and time again. She can play an actress in a more lighthearted drama, like Florence Foster Jenkins which I actually didn't see, but I know she was nominated for that too and she can also poke fun of her, like she was in that movie Don't Look Up where she was the president and there was a nude scene of her. Granted, it wasn't her body, but she makes fun of herself and can just be really lighthearted. She can also do family films like Into the Woods. She can just do it all.
Remi:I'm not a huge fan of Don't Look Up, but I must say a highlight of the film is Jonah Hill and Meryl Streep as mother and son, who are also in the White House, and I've always thought of it like when you see an actor like Tom Cruise or even Leonardo DiCaprio, you're always thinking of them as Tom Cruise or Leonardo DiCaprio when you're seeing them in a film. Most of the time, however, I never think that when I'm watching Meryl Streep in a movie, she completely disappears into every single character she plays and it is truly remarkable.
Ashley:Well, with that, let's get into this performance. She does play someone from Australia, so I am just so curious to really learn what went into this movie, how she prepared for it, and I want to know about her accent.
Remi:Well then, let's get into it. Hello, hey, it's Wadingo here fella.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Oh, don't encourage him, Michael. The signs say he shouldn't.
Remi:Evil Angels, which was later retitled A Cry in the Dark for international audiences is a 1988 drama directed by Fred Schepisi, with a screenplay by Sch Shapisi and Robert Caswell. The film is based on John Bryson's 1985 book of the same name and stars Meryl Streep and Sam Neill.
Ashley:Which I will point out. That book was the primary source material I use for my section.
Remi:Producer Verity Lambert purchased the rights to Bryson's book shortly after its publication in 1985. At first, the project was set up under Thorne EMI Screen Entertainment with plans to co-produce alongside Greater Union, their Australian distribution partner. However, Lambert eventually chose to produce the film through her own company, with Canon Films backing and Fred Schapisi directing. Do you remember anything about Canon Films, Ashley?
Ashley:I do not. What is it?
Remi:It is the production company that made the original Toxic Avenger film and they are kind of a B-movie production company that a lot of big-name directors got their start at, like James Cameron and Ron Howard, and we discussed them previously on our Monster episode. I believe Director Fred Schepisi had previously worked with both Meryl Streep and Sam Neill on his 1985 film Plenty. By the time Evil Angels went into production, streep was coming off her seventh Academy Award nomination for Ironweed in 1987 and was immediately drawn to the project, calling it an incredibly compelling story.
Meryl Streep:I had a sort of a special task with this one because I was portraying someone whose life was still in litigation. So I had to be real, real, accurate. With the other real people I've played, I've had a little more leeway, you know, with Isaac Dinesen and Karen Silkwood I had I could put more of myself in. She has a very specific way of speaking which is not necessarily the way that a lot of Australians talk. It's very, very nasal and it's in the nose and she goes down all the time to make a point like that. You know it was really, really exact, so I had to get it right. I mean, I really sweat bullets trying to achieve it.
Remi:Streep later said that Lindy Chamberlain's accent was the most difficult she had ever attempted. She compared mastering a new accent to putting on good shoes before a race it won't make you win, but it will help you perform better. For the role, Streep gained weight and focused on capturing Lindy's physical presence, believing that her harsh exterior played a key role in her media vilification and public perception.
Ashley:Two cases in a row now with women that were just ripped apart by the media, one for a little more good reason than the other.
Remi:Kiwi actor Sam Neill, who plays Michael Chamberlain in the film, was already very familiar with the case but claimed to have never formed a personal opinion regarding Lindy's guilt, stating it was not for me to decide. Throughout the course of making the film, however, Neil became adamantly convinced of the family's innocence and after going over this case, I don't know how you could possibly think that this family was guilty of doing this. It's pretty mind-boggling what they went through and the flimsy evidence that was brought up against them. Filming in Australia was met with significant opposition from the media, with Streep herself being relentlessly pursued by tabloid reporters during the entire shoot. Although the Chamberlains were not officially involved in the production, the filmmakers did consult them and both actors felt that it was important to meet their real-life counterparts. At first, Streep was too nervous to meet Lindy and delayed the introduction several times. When they finally did meet, Streep tried to lighten the mood by noting their shared experience with public scrutiny in Australia, only for Lindy to retort yes, but you're famous and I'm infamous. I'm sure the conversation wasn't awkward at all from that moment forward.
Remi:Sam Neill also recalled that when he first met Michael Chamberlain, Michael admitted that he had never heard of him and was deeply suspicious of an agnostic actor portraying him on screen. Sounds like neither one of the Chamberlains were really thrilled that this movie was being made, but they were just being forced to accept it anyway Out of respect. Neither Streep nor Neal spoke about any details of the case during their meetings with the Chamberlains. Evil Angels was among the most expensive and ambitious productions ever filmed in Australia, with 350 speaking roles and over 4,000 extras. This film does a thing where it is showing the public reacting to Lindy, so it will cut to people in everyday scenarios they're on their lunch break, they're pumping gas, they're hanging out with some friends at a bar. It just shows regular people discussing the trial and their thoughts of it, and I think it's very, very effective.
Ashley:I mean, this was the biggest case Australia has ever seen and probably the biggest since.
Remi:This was basically the equivalent to the OJ trial here in America. It was everywhere in Australia but for whatever reason it didn't really travel over here to the States at the time, which the director chalks up to. We had our own shit going on. While later promoting the film, director Fred Schipisi emphasized that every detail was factual, with no dramatic license taken.
Ashley:We'll be the judge of that, Fred.
Remi:Well, are you ready to dive into Evil Angels, aka A Cry in the Dark?
Ashley:I sure am.
Remi:Our story begins in August 1980 in the small town of Mount Isa, queensland, inside a Seventh-day Adventist church, pastor Michael Chamberlain, played by Sam Neill, stands with his wife Lindy played by Meryl Streep, and their two young sons, aiden and Regan, to present their newborn daughter, azaria Chantel Loren Chamberlain, before the congregation. Not long after we see the Chamberlains preparing for a family vacation, lindy is busy packing while Michael is elsewhere delivering a sermon on the dangers of cigarette smoking, using a prop infant-sized casket for added effect.
Ashley:I do not have this in my section, but during a subsequent search of the Chamberlain home, the police officers discover this casket that he used for his anti-smoking campaigns, and it raises more than a few eyebrows.
Remi:I did not include that either, but it is in the film. Back home, michael maps out the family road trip for his two boys, including stops at the Olgas, the Devil's Marbles and Ayers Rock, the largest rock in the entire world. Their journey begins at Ayers Rock like any other family vacation, with Michael eagerly snapping photographs of the majestic landscapes as Lindy and the boys explore the interiors of the striking red rock formations. That evening, after a long day of hiking, lindy gives baby Azaria a bath as Michael sets up the rest of camp before heading back out to capture a few more photos of the stunning landscape.
Remi:As the sun begins to set by nightfall, the campgrounds are buzzing with activity as the Chamberlains grill up a hearty vegetarian dinner and mingle with fellow campers, while Michael casually tosses scraps of food to a dingo lurking nearby. After dinner, lindy tucks Azaria into their tent for the night, but after a short while hears the baby begin to cry, so returns to console her. As Lindy approaches, she notices that a dingo has gotten into the tent with something clenched between its jaws, so quickly chases it away before checking on Azaria. To her horror Azaria is nowhere to be found.
A Cry in the Dark scene:So Lindy begins to panic, searching frantically in the dark for her missing child while crying out for help to anyone.
Ashley:I can't see. Michael, you can't see. It's too dark. You need a torch, michael. That way you can't see. You need a torch. Has anybody got a torch? The?
Judge's Verdict (film):day can't come. I'm out of here. Has anybody got a torch Please?
Remi:help me, help me, help me. Michael quickly grabs a flashlight and is joined by a few other campers who all begin scouring the dark Australian outback for any trace of Azaria, only to return empty-handed Soon after the police arrive on the scene and organize a more coordinated group search effort, but the only potential clue uncovered is a single dingo paw print. The search continues late into the evening, but inevitably ends in heartbreak, with not a single trace of baby Azaria being found. When the search party finally returns to camp, exhausted and empty-handed, a somber Michael takes a moment to address the crowd. People.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Folks, it's my daughter you're looking for and I want to thank you all for what you're doing. I'm a minister of religion and I know that nothing happens in the world unless God allows it, and I know that there's little hope any longer of finding our little daughter alive, but I am thankful that we will see her again at the resurrection. Let us pray.
Ashley:When he finishes the speech and starts the prayer, there are people in the crowd that are just looking at each other like what?
Remi:that was weird, yeah I don't think that his speech came off exactly how he had intended it to. This is a very religious, so I guess they were a little bit more accepting that their baby was with God and they would see her again someday. But hearing a father say this on the night of his baby's disappearance, I'm sure some people thought was a little odd.
Ashley:It's their way of trying to make sense of something that is just so horrific and tragic.
Remi:And we should never judge another person's grieving process. Everybody grieves differently, and just because it may not match what we picture in our head does not mean that they are any less tormented by all of this. Michael breaks down into tears before he can even finish his speech. With nothing more to be done, the family gathers their belongings, including Azaria's crib and blanket, and leaves the campsite to spend the remainder of the night in a nearby motel. Inside the room, Michael paces endlessly, questioning why God would take their child from them, as Lindy recounts the events of the evening over and over again, second-guessing every decision that she made.
Remi:After a long sleepless night, the sun begins to rise, slowly waking their two young boys, Aiden and Reagan, Through tears. Lindy tells her sons that their baby sister is likely gone, but promises that they will see her again someday in heaven. The next morning, the police return to the motel with no new updates and inform the Chamberlains that a coroner's report will soon need their signatures. Back at the campsite, the search continues with little hope when Michael suddenly receives an unexpected phone call from ABC radio, adamantly requesting an interview On air. With Lindy at his side, Michael recounts the harrowing story of their baby being taken by the dingo. Afterwards, the family is photographed by ABC near their tent and the surrounding area where the incident took place, capturing the moment for all to see.
Ashley:It is so dark that the radio station wanted to take a photo of them outside of the tent.
Remi:Yes, all of this was their suggestion. The family was extremely hesitant about agreeing to any of this, but they seemed to just think that this is what was supposed to be done. So they spoke to the press. They followed instructions and took these photos in and around the campsite and even photos with the bloody sleeping bag. It is extremely fucked up what ABC made this family do. Literally the night after their baby disappeared.
Remi:A separate television interview is filmed following this, but the footage is heavily edited for the broadcast following this, but the footage is heavily edited for the broadcast, sparking public mockery and skepticism towards the Chamberlains. Like there's literally a scene where they do the interview and they show the interviewer off to the side later on, recording entirely new questions that they are going to splice in with the Chamberlains' answers to make them look worse. It's a pretty sneaky editing trick that is still used to this day. Later that day, the police question Lindy again back at the motel and by the following morning authorities have rounded up every damn dingo in the area, hoping Lindy can identify the culprit, which I don't know how she would ever be expected to do that. If anyone out there has ever seen a coyote, could you pick that coyote out of a lineup. If you saw it in the middle of the night, I don't think so. After being unable to do so, the Chamberlains leave their contact information before heading home in silence, still utterly devastated by the last 48 hours.
Remi:Back home. Once the boys have finally been tucked in, michael and Lindy stay up late, lying in bed together while reading scripture, searching for some sort of solace in the face of such an unimaginable tragedy. In the days that follow, lindy reluctantly agrees to an interview with a reporter from Woman's Day magazine. Not long after a tourist at Ayers Rock discovers blood-stained baby clothing, believed to be Azaria's, reportedly found neatly folded near a dingo lair, further fueling even more wild speculation. Unfounded rumors about the family soon begin to spread like wildfire, including that Lindy wanted to be rid of her child, always dressed as Aria in black, and some even believing that the baby had been sacrificed, which I also want to point out that all of this is coming from. They discovered the baby's clothing in a position that could be perceived as folded, so it's really taken a leap to start saying that she sacrificed her child.
Ashley:It's that, with a mixture of people believing that they were cold during media interviews and feeling uncomfortable with their recurrent references to God.
Remi:That weekend, the Chamberlain's church holds a small service mourning the loss of baby Azaria. After realizing that his statements to the media the day of his daughter's disappearance may have been misinterpreted, the Chamberlains agreed to another TV interview so that Michael can attempt to explain why he agreed to speak with the press so quickly. Unfortunately, rather than softening the public's perception of him, michael's demeanor comes across as insincere to many viewers, sparking fresh rumors, including that he had been arrested immediately following the broadcast. Soon after, lindy sits down for her own televised interview to address the increasingly absurd rumors surrounding her and her family, including claims that the Chamberlains were once connected to Jim Jones' People's Temple cult in South America.
Ashley:Did you have a connection to Jonestown on your bingo card for this episode? Because I sure did not.
Remi:The interviewer presses Lindy about certain details regarding the condition of Azaria's clothing, highlighting how few tears were found and suggesting the unlikelihood of a dingo being able to remove the baby's clothing in such a neat fashion.
Remi:Lindy retorts by arguing that dingoes often strip the skin from their prey before consuming them, but her blunt, matter-of-fact tone only reinforces the impression to audiences at home that she is cold and unfeeling. Meanwhile, forensic results on Azaria's clothing have come back with the analysis stating that there was no trace of dingo saliva found and that the tears in the fabric were not consistent with that of dingo teeth. As soon as the press catches wind of this, the findings dominate headlines across the country, further exacerbating the public suspicion and doubts regarding the Chamberlain's version of the events. By the time preparations have begun for the official inquest to determine the cause, manner and circumstances of Azaria's death, the family is already in the midst of packing and preparing to move to Avondale College, since Michael's study leave has been approved. On the first day of the inquiry, the Chamberlains arrive at the courthouse only to be greeted by a full-blown media circus with reporters and cameras swarming them from every direction. During the inquiry, lindy takes the stand first and delivers the following heartfelt testimony Was the Women's Day article accurate?
A Cry in the Dark scene:No, it was the most inaccurate article of all or at least the ones that I've read so far.
A Cry in the Dark scene:In fact, there are only about five reporters who write exactly what you say and the rest of them use a little bit of licence. Perhaps I could read you something from Dr Brown's report. There were several small cuts in the baby blankets, but there was no evidence of tooth marks.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Well, teeth cut, don't they?
A Cry in the Dark scene:A forensic dentist finds no evidence of tooth marks. Does that concern you?
A Cry in the Dark scene:Well, of course it concerns me, but he doesn't know what caused the cuts. And if he can't say what happened, how can he say what didn't happen?
A Cry in the Dark scene:So you're not prepared to accept his expertise in saying that there were no teeth marks?
A Cry in the Dark scene:I'm not saying that I'm saying what I'd like is a full answer, not a half answer. I'd like to know more than anyone else what happened to my baby daughter. What happened to my baby?
Remi:daughter. This would be unimaginable to be forced to go through after losing a child. And it only gets worse and worse and worse as we go on. Despite the sincerity behind her words, lindy's testimony unintentionally sparks outrage among dingo activists across the country. Tensions continue to escalate during Michael's testimony when a death threat is made from inside the courthouse, forcing an impromptu intermission. Later the inquiry moves to Ayers Rock itself, where officials conduct a nighttime inspection of the campsite and the barbecue area. Lindy's anguished expressions during the ordeal are captured by the press and splattered across the front pages of every newspaper the following morning. So from that point forward, lindy vows to never show any emotion in front of the cameras ever again. That same night, the Chamberlain's hotel is evacuated after receiving a bomb threat. When the inquiry finally draws to a close, the judge delivers his verdict live on national television.
Judge's Verdict (film):To you, pastor and Mrs Chamberlain, and through you to Aidan and Regan, may I extend my deepest sympathy. You've not only suffered the loss of your beloved child in the most tragic circumstances, but you've all been subjected to months of innuendos, suspicion and some of the most malicious gossip ever witnessed in this country, and some of the most malicious gossip ever witnessed in this country. I've taken the unusual step of permitting these proceedings to be televised today, in the hope that by direct and accurate communication, such innuendos, suspicion and gossip may cease. This case clearly emphasizes that a choice has to be made between dingoes on one hand and tourism on the other.
Remi:The judge continues by criticizing the Northern Territory Police for their mishandling of the case, noting that the forensic expert who examined Azaria's clothing had no experience with bite marks and fabric likely making his findings unreliable. Experience with bite marks and fabric likely making his findings unreliable. The inquiry closes with the judge ruling that Azaria's death was the result of a wild dingo attack and that no member of the Chamberlain family bore any responsibility whatsoever. Despite the judge's verdict, the majority of Australian citizens remain unconvinced. During their statement to the press outside of the courthouse, the Chamberlains unveil a large poster of Lindy holding baby Azaria, depicting a loving maternal moment between mother and daughter. But does this garner any sympathy for the Chamberlains? Of course not. The gesture is viewed by the public as simply another desperate plea for attention by the family.
Ashley:I watched several interviews with Lindy, most of which were ones that she has done since then, and she kind of talks about this. In one of them she said something like I didn't know how I was supposed to come across. If I cried, it was all fake, and, for the cameras, if I didn't cry, I was viewed as cold hearted.
Remi:There is a scene in the film Gone Girl where Ben Affleck's lawyer is discussing how he presents himself on camera, where he is criticizing his posture. He's criticizing how he's saying certain words, his looks. There's so many little things that the public judges you on that have nothing to do with facts or the case. It's literally how you look and how people perceive you based on that, which is so fucked up. In the weeks that follow, lindy begins working towards getting her Bachelor of Education and the Chamberlains relocate to Avondale College, a seventh-day Aventus University, where Michael begins his study leave with plans to move the family over to America the following year so that Michael can pursue his doctorate in health science.
Remi:The family agrees to a television interview where they reveal these plans, but the footage is heavily edited again in order to portray them in an unflattering light, further twisting the public's perception of them. And if I was the Chamberlains I would have stopped giving any interviews a long time ago. I would not trust the press with anything involving my story. Meanwhile, embarrassed by the inquiry judge's televised lambasting the Northern Territory Police led by Constable Graham Charlwood, played by Nick Tate have decided to continue their investigation by re-interviewing various witnesses from the night of Azaria's disappearance, and I didn't mention this. But all of these interviews were coordinated to take place at the same time, on the same day, so that no one could catch wind that they were occurring.
Ashley:This whole re-investigation was definitely kept under wraps and done in secret for several months.
Remi:Because it's based on a grudge. The police department is just upset that the judge made them look bad on television like that and said that they did a poor job with the investigation. So I think that they're just determined to prove that they were right all along. Shortly after the one-year anniversary of Azaria's death, constable Charlewood arrives at the Chamberlain's home on the Sabbath along with several other officers and a search warrant claiming that new forensic evidence has recently come to light. Search warrant claiming that new forensic evidence has recently come to light, resulting in the investigation being reopened. The moment the press catch wind of this, the media firestorm surrounding the family is instantly reignited like a Molotov cocktail, shattering over a propane-soaked haystack sprinkled in gunpowder. That was the biggest explosion I could think of. Sprinkled in gunpowder that was the biggest explosion I could think of. Though the details of the supposed evidence remain hidden from the public, lindy learns the truth during her car ride with Constable Charlwood.
A Cry in the Dark scene:I've never asked you this before, but did you kill your baby? If I answer that question, I'll be giving you an interview, and my lawyer has advised me not to speak to you alone.
Ashley:No, I deny the giving you an interview and my lawyer has advised me not to speak to you alone. No, I don't know.
Chamberlain's Lawyer:The conversation never took place, can't? It's just between you and me, did you? Kill your baby, oh come on If I'd done it.
A Cry in the Dark scene:why invent such an unbelievable story about a dingo? Don't sell yourself short. You're crediting me with the perfect murder. Don't sell yourself short. You're crediting me with the perfect murder. Don't sell yourself short.
A Cry in the Dark scene:The baby's clothes have been examined by Professor Cameron in London.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Oh, I didn't know there were any dingo experts in London.
Ashley:He's a world-class forensic scientist. He found a handprint on the jumpsuit. It was made when it was wet with blood. It's a world-class forensic scientist. He found a handprint on the jumpsuit. It was made when it was wet with blood.
A Cry in the Dark scene:It's a small female hand. Oh well then I'm back in the hot seat aren't I?
Remi:We soon learn that Professor Cameron, who is described as one of the world's leading forensic pathologists, has presented ultraviolet photographs which he claims show that Azaria was being held by a human hand while she was still bleeding.
Ashley:Spoiler alert, since I don't think I mentioned this in my part. This quote-unquote bloody handprint later turns out to just be dried sand.
Remi:Well, this evidence is supposedly backed up by the discovery of arterial spray inside the Chamberlain's vehicle, which investigators say is consistent with blood spray from a cut throat.
Ashley:It's like the blood spray that your heart this is kind of graphic that your heart would pump out as it was still bleeding.
Remi:At the second inquest, lindy Chamberlain is committed for trial and formally charged with murdering her 10-week-old daughter, with Michael also being charged as an accessory.
Remi:After the fact, the fact Still devastated by the loss of their daughter, these latest charges leave Michael with a severe crisis of faith, as he cannot understand why God would allow them to suffer any further. Yet in the midst of everything, michael and Lindy still cling to their original plans of growing their family and continue trying for another child. During this time, the Chamberlains are relentlessly hounded by the press, with reporters following their every move and news helicopters even circling their home. The prosecution's case hinges on an almost impossibly implausible scenario. So buckle up, folks. According to the prosecution, lindy returned to the tent shortly after putting Azaria down, changed into tracksuit pants, carried her to the family car, slit her throat with nail scissors and decapitated her, stuffed the body into a camera bag, cleaned herself and the car of every trace of blood, paused to feed one of her other children, a can of baked beans, changed back out of the tracksuit, sprinkled blood around the tent to stage the scene and then calmly rejoined the barbecue as if nothing had ever happened all within the span of just 10 minutes.
Ashley:And for no reason at all, just because she felt like killing that day.
Remi:Yeah, there's no motive here at all. This is a preposterous story. I can't believe anyone was even considering that this could have happened. This is nuts.
Ashley:The defense ends up calling a lot of character witnesses at their trial to show that Lindy was a very loving, attentive mom. They even called her OBGYN, who said no signs of postpartum, no concern that she would have hurt the baby, no reason she would have done so.
Remi:The televised trial is set for September in Darwin, at which time Lindy will be seven months pregnant. When the day arrives, the Chamberlains are once again swarmed by the press, joined this time by a hostile crowd of locals gathered just to boo and jeer Lindy. So that's nice people.
Ashley:I think I saw a clip of this somewhere, but is this where the girls are wearing t-shirts that says like exonerate the dingo, or something like that?
Remi:Yeah, there's a lot of that sort of thing. There is also a scene where Lindy is talking on the telephone to another member of her family and a random woman comes out of nowhere and just spits in her face and then walks away and it's super fucked up in the context of the story, but I couldn't help but think that is a random extra that spit in Meryl Streep's face on film.
Ashley:Well, in real life, there was a group of teenage girls or young adult women that did show up to court wearing those t-shirts.
Remi:There's always people like that that show up to these big televised trials. Over the following weeks, multiple witnesses and forensic experts testify as the public's opinion of Lindy continues to plummet Not because of any compelling evidence against her, mind you, but simply because of her demeanor in court. Through it all, an extremely pregnant Lindy maintains her composure the best she can by refusing to let the increasing public scrutiny get the better of her. Michael, on the other hand, has become a shattered shell of his former self due to the ordeal causing him to struggle badly on the stand and allowing the prosecution ample opportunity to dismantle his testimony. Lindy's testimony follows next, stretching on for several days and forcing her to relive the final moments she last saw her baby girl, over and over with.
A Cry in the Dark scene:You say the blood on the parka must have come from the baby.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Yes, when it was in the dog's mouth Somewhere around that time. But what other time could it have come from the baby? Look, mr Barker, I wasn't there. I can only go on the evidence of my own eyes. We're talking about my baby daughter, not some object.
Ashley:I cannot imagine having to retell this story again and again, and again and again for two years to people that don't believe you and are accusing you of being the perpetrator of killing an infant.
Remi:This would be so infuriating, and she keeps a level head through this entire ordeal and having to go through every grisly detail about her baby's death over again and over again and over again. This would be so traumatic and my heart just goes out to this woman. This is so horrific and tragic that she was forced to experience this, and it's not over yet. After months of being dragged through the mud, and despite all of the evidence against her being repeatedly debunked, along with the judge seemingly siding with the defense, the jury still come to the unanimous verdict that Lindy Chamberlain is guilty of murdering her daughter Azaria. She is sentenced to life in prison with hard labor, meaning that she would be required to perform physically demanding work as added punishment beyond her incarceration. Michael is also found guilty of being an accessory, but the judge suspends his 18-month sentence on a three-year bond, citing the need for him to remain with their children While serving her sentence. Lindy petitions the Northern Territory government to allow her to keep her unborn child with her after its birth, but her request is denied, so she is only permitted to hold her newborn baby girl for a single hour before it is taken away from her.
Remi:More time passes, with both Lindy and Michael losing their high court appeals, which is basically Australia's version of the Supreme Court. Then, in an unexpected twist of fate, a pair of park rangers investigating a climber's fatal fall from Ayers Rock stumble across Azaria's missing matinee jacket, the very one Lindy had insisted her daughter was wearing the night. She disappeared more than five and a half years earlier. Shortly after this discovery, lindy is released from prison on compassionate grounds which I've never heard of before, and she is allowed to finally return home to her family, where she is greeted not only by Michael and the children, but also the entire neighborhood, who have all lined the streets to show their support.
Ashley:We have compassionate release here in the States. Usually it's reserved if someone has like a terminal illness or something and, you know, maybe not much longer on their sentence or they're not a danger, the judge can release them under compassion. In this case it was because they were going to do a reinvestigation of it and clearly the court was like she didn't do it. Guys, she's going to be released until this former inquiry is completed.
A Cry in the Dark scene:That weekend when Lindy attends church, she is met with a standing ovation as she steps to the podium, overcome with gratitude, and addresses the congregation. Words are totally inadequate to say how we feel, to express our gratitude for your love and your care and your prayers. It reaches out to us like a blanket, surrounds us. It's totally tangible. The fight for justice has only just started. You may think it's over, but, believe me, it's only just beginning and it's not only for us, for our freedom and to clear our name, but it's for all Australians. We never want to see this happen in Australia again. God bless you all.
Remi:As the Chamberlains leave church, they are immediately swarmed once again by reporters, with one asking why the family continues to fight even after Lindy was finally set free.
Ashley:It's such a dumb question Like do you want to still be charged with murder? No, it's such a dumb question Like do you want to still be charged with murder? No, Just because you're free, if you're still a convicted murderer, your whole life is impacted.
Remi:Well, michael responds by saying I don't think a lot of people realize how important innocence is to innocent people. Before the closing credits we learn that on September 15th 1988, eight years after the disappearance of their baby, azaria Lindy and Michael Chamberlain finally won the fight to prove their innocence. All three judges of the Northern Territory Court of Appeals exonerated the Chamberlains of all charges. The fight to restore their lives continues. And that was Fred Shapisi's Evil Angels, or A Cry in the Dark. Any initial reactions? Ashley.
Ashley:I do want to say that if anyone is interested in watching this movie, it's actually available for free on YouTube, so you can jump on that site and turn it on when you're done listening to this podcast, if you just are craving more Meryl, which everyone could use more Meryl in their lives.
Remi:It is a very good film, so I recommend if anyone is interested. I was fortunate enough to get to watch this for free on YouTube. I wish there were more movies for free on YouTube, but it is a very well-made film and Meryl Streep is, as always, astonishing.
Ashley:One initial thought I have is we've talked a lot about Meryl in this, and I was also really happy to see Sam Neill of Jurassic Park.
Remi:He played Dr Alan Grant. Yeah, sam Neill would later go on to global fame starring in the Jurassic Park franchise, and I will always have a soft spot for him in the film Event Horizon, which I saw as a teen and really scared the shit out of me. He's a brilliant actor. We also saw him in the Piano not too long ago.
Ashley:I'm trying to be careful with my words here because I don't want to give too much away before we get to my section and the verdict.
Ashley:But from my initial takeaways from this film. It seems like it was a very well shot, well directed and also well edited movie, and I am just really impressed with what I know and how much was portrayed in this film. Also, I very much appreciate the obvious care they took when telling this story. This is a family that was persecuted by the media for years, decades even, and it really seems that everyone involved tried to take a lot of care to not have this be another instance of that.
Remi:Well, I do know that everyone involved with the making of this film were all in total agreement that the Chamberlains did not commit this crime, but unfortunately that wasn't the case for everybody.
Ashley:This is also a case, and we have several of these in America and probably all over the world. But I'm really a big advocate in the countries that have trials done with three judges and there has to be a unanimous consensus, or at least a majority ruling to decide guilt or innocence. There's just too much in my opinion that could go wrong with leaving it up to a jury. Juries are people. We have emotions and a lot of the times, especially when it comes to the death of a vulnerable person, I just don't see how anyone can take emotions out of it.
Remi:And it is made very clear in the film that both judges during the inquiries do not think that the Chamberlains are guilty. But the jury is swayed by, I don't know, the charisma of the prosecution, or maybe stuff they had read in the press before even starting the inquiry. So yeah, I think I do agree with you in that regard.
Ashley:And it sounds like you enjoyed this movie. It's one you'd recommend.
Remi:I would recommend this film. I don't know if enjoy is the right word for it. Every time I recommend a film on this podcast, I am hesitant to say that I enjoyed it, but it is a very, very well-made film and, like I said before, meryl Streep is phenomenal, as always. It's worth a watch just for her performance alone.
Ashley:Well, I'm sure that some critics had something to say about her performance In fact I know they did. So let's get into the release of the film.
Remi:On Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds a 94% rating based on 31 reviews with no critical consensus, which is pretty rare. I think the Town that Dreaded Sundown may be the last film that we covered that didn't have a critical consensus. Evil Angels was released less than two months after the Chamberlains were officially exonerated by the Northern Territory Court of Appeals. Despite the film's critical acclaim, many Australians were outraged upon its release, with large portions of the public still unwaveringly convinced of the Chamberlain's guilt, which is just crazy to me. They're just basing this on seeing them on the news and not trusting them.
Ashley:Around this time there was a poll taken. I actually think it was shortly before she got released, but the country was basically split. It was like 49% thought she was innocent and 51% thought she was guilty.
Remi:Well. As a result, evil Angels earned just over $3 million at the Australian box office and $6.9 million worldwide, where it was released as A Cry in the Dark, ultimately falling short of its 15 million dollar budget. So this was a flop and I feel like a lot of people have kind of forgotten about this movie, which is probably why it's available for free on YouTube. The Chamberlains were eventually shown the film and while Sam Neill recalled that the experience was painful for them, they responded positively overall, with Neill noting that the experience was painful for them. They responded positively overall, with Neill noting that Michael Chamberlain, whom he portrays in the film, had even been moved to tears. By the end, the film swept the 1989 AFI Awards winning Best Film, best Director, best Adapted Screenplay, best Actor and Best Actress. Meryl Streep went on to receive an Academy Award and Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Actress, though she lost both to Jodie Foster in the Accused that is another movie we have on our list to cover eventually.
Ashley:It is one I have seen and it is a very, very, very tough watch and it is a very, very, very tough watch.
Remi:Streep initially planned on playing Ava Peron in the cinematic adaptation of the musical Evita, with Oliver Stone directing, as her next project. When that fell through, Streep pivoted to a perplexing role as a romance novelist named Mary Fisher in the 1989 Roseanne Barr comedy She-Devil have you ever seen She-Devil Ashley?
Ashley:I have not and, given that it is associated with Roseanne Barr, I think I'm going to pass.
Remi:It is not a good movie. I distinctly remember when I was growing up Meryl Streep was going through a phase where she was just in a lot of weird dark comedies for several years and I actually saw this film because my mom was a Roseanne fan, but not a recommend for that movie at all.
Ashley:I did like the show Roseanne back in the day, don't get me wrong. It's just all of the controversy that has come to pass with her in more recent years that I can't support.
Remi:Well, she plays a woman married to a man who leaves her for Meryl Streep, and the entire film is her getting revenge on Meryl Streep through various tactics. Though She-Devil underperformed, streep did finally get her sing-on in musicals such as Mamma Mia and Into the Woods. Over her career, streep went on to set the record for the most Academy Award nominations of any actor, with 21 in total, finally winning for a third time in 2012 for her portrayal of Margaret Thatcher in the Iron Lady, which is, hands down, the worst Iron man sequel.
Ashley:Ba-dum-bum in the Iron Lady which is hands down the worst Iron man sequel.
Remi:I also find it crazy that she didn't win any other Oscars between the early 80s to 2012 and she was nominated so many times and she ended up winning for the Iron Lady Like come on, dude. She was in doubt. Devil Wears Prada. There were so many better performances Throughout the years. Evil Angel's most enduring legacy has been its association with the phrase the dingo ate my baby, a line never actually said in the film. What started off as a tragic cry for help was eventually reduced to a pop culture punchline, with the misquote turning into a running joke in TV shows like Frasier, supernatural, the Simpsons and of course, seinfeld.
Remi:It has also been referenced in films like Tropic Thunder. You know, that's a true story.
Chamberlain's Lawyer:Lady loves the kid you about to cross some fucking lines. Guys relax, you know what?
A Cry in the Dark scene:Fuck that man.
Ashley:Wow, that Simpsons one is just horrendous.
Remi:It is pretty offensive. I remember finding it funny at the time, but now, being aware of the backstory, it's pretty distasteful.
Ashley:It is very distasteful. Not only was this family put through the wringer, their lives were ruined. This couple did not survive this. These kids, while this was all going on, were ridiculed in school. Other kids would tease them saying why did your mom kill your sister? This family was ripped apart because of this tragedy and it's just treated like a joke.
Remi:Well, despite the misquote. In 2005, the American Film Institute nominated the phrase the Dingo Took my Baby for its list of the 100 Greatest Movie Quotes. A few years later, in 2008, afi also ranked Evil Angels ninth on its 10 top 10 list of the greatest courtroom dramas of all time.
Ashley:Wow, it's shocking that made the list. 10 is not a lot.
Remi:There's a ton of courtroom dramas masterful job of capturing the public's opinion on things. It's very smooth, it's not jarring and it is done very, very well. I think it's the best film I've seen that accurately portrays how the public is reacting to the trial in real time. As shown in the film, tourists were once allowed to walk on and even inside Ayers Rock, now more commonly known as Uluru, though the native Aborigine people of Australia had long regarded it as a sacred site. Over the years, incidents such as public nudity, golfing and even a strip tease on top of Uluru sparked public controversy, and by 2018, 37 deaths from recreational climbing had been recorded. On November 1, 2017, the Uluru National Park Board voted unanimously to ban climbing, a decision that officially took effect on October 26, 2019, ensuring Uluru would finally be honored as the sacred site it had always been. And that was Fred Shapisi's Evil Angels or A Cry in the Dark, which is only one side of this story, the film's version of the events, ashley. I look forward to seeing how close this resembles what actually happened.
Ashley:I think you all are in for quite the surprise. Alice Lynn Murchison, known throughout her life as Lindy, was born in Wakatane, new Zealand, on March 4th 1948. Her childhood was marked by frequent moves, since her father, a Seventh-day Adventist pastor, was often assigned to new churches. In November 1969, lindy married Michael Chamberlain, another pastor in the Adventist church.
Remi:So her father and husband were both pastors.
Ashley:The couple spent five years in Tasmania where Michael led local congregations and worked on public health campaigns, particularly anti-smoking initiatives initiatives. Lindy embraced her role as a minister's wife and used her training and tailoring from Launceston Technical College to make custom wedding gowns. And, fun fact, both my wedding gown Remy, you don't know this, but my wedding gown and my aunt's wedding gown are both from Australia.
Remi:Is Australia known for their wedding dresses. That seems like a crazy coincidence.
Ashley:Like her father, Michael was frequently reassigned to parishes across Australia. In February 1980, they moved to Mount Isa in northern Queensland. By then they had two sons, six-year-old Aiden and four-year-old Reagan. The family was completed with the birth of Azaria on June 11, 1980. The family was completed with the birth of Azaria on June 11, 1980. Just nine weeks later, the Chamberlain set out for a camping trip to Ayers Rock, today known as Uluru, near Alice Springs. The area was a hugely popular tourist spot and attracted more than 170,000 visitors per year. The area was also home to over 40 dingo lairs. While dingoes are usually leery of humans, these ones had grown bold thanks to their years of living near staff and tourists, who fed them scraps and treated them more like outdoor pets than wild animals.
Remi:In the film all of the dingoes are kind of going up to the tourists and all the tourists seem really amazed by this, like wow, a dingo is just coming up to us. So that makes a lot of sense that the tourists would not be expecting that sort of behavior. And at Ayers Rock the dingoes had been conditioned to just go up to people because they'd be fed.
Ashley:Chief Ranger Derek Roth raised concerns about this growing problem and pushed for fences around popular campgrounds, and his worries weren't unfounded. In 1980 alone, there were at least nine reported cases of dingoes attacking young children near the park. The Chamberlains arrived at the campground on the evening of August 16th. The Chamberlains arrived at the campground on the evening of August 16th. They spent the afternoon exploring nearby landmarks like Chicken Rock, Maggie Springs and the Fertility Cave, before returning for the evening around 6 o'clock.
Remi:And in the movie they did actually film at Ayers Rock because it was before the ban was enforced and it is pretty breathtaking.
Ashley:There were multiple dingo sightings throughout the day, including several at the campground itself. Lindy spent the next few hours preparing her children for bed, tending to her newborn and chatting with nearby campers. Around 8 o'clock she laid Azaria in her bassinet and returned to the grill area to cook Aiden a bedtime snack. She left the tent flap open, since she planned to put him to bed when she finished. About 20 minutes later, camper Judy West heard a low growl near the Chamberlain's tent. Roughly 10 minutes after that, another camper named Sally Lowe heard the unmistakable cry of a baby. Another camper named Sally Lowe heard the unmistakable cry of a baby.
Ashley:As Lindy walked back to the tent, she caught sight of a dingo scurrying away In the low light. She didn't notice if anything was in its mouth. She rushed inside and shouted the words that would echo through history for decades to come my God, the dingoes got my baby. The campsite was immediately thrust into chaos and panic Campers grabbed flashlights and fanned out across the dark desert. Within the hour, 200 to 300 people were searching for baby Azaria, even forming a human chain to make sure no patch of ground went overlooked.
Remi:This is depicted in the film as well.
Ashley:It's pretty impressive. They said they covered like half a mile or something of ground with this chain.
Remi:It looked pretty thorough. They had everyone lined up about five to six feet apart, everyone had flashlights and they were all walking at the exact same pace, just scanning the areas around them. It was a very thorough search, at least as thorough as one could be in the middle of the Australian outback in the middle of the night.
Ashley:Two campers found Constable Frank Morris and brought him to the scene, where he quickly alerted three park rangers. When Morris inspected the tent, he noticed blood speckled and smeared on the bedding, as well as dingo tracks around the entrance. He followed the tracks until they faded out by the road.
Remi:This seems like a pretty cut-and-dry case to me.
Ashley:By 9.30 or 10, five expert aboriginal trackers arrived. Maury Habe, a fellow camper and amateur tracker, followed the trail to a sand dune where he noticed several places that looked as though a knitted weave bundle was briefly set down and dragged. The tracks eventually disappeared in a parking lot. Michael Chamberlain periodically joined in on search efforts between returning to comfort his distraught wife. Around midnight a group of campers convinced the couple to stay at a nearby hotel for the rest of the night, since there was not much else anyone could do.
Remi:This is also depicted in the film, and the campers also pay for their room for the night.
Ashley:Oh, that's nice. They gathered a few necessities and planned to get the rest the next morning. Despite the massive search effort, no trace of Azaria was found. News about the disappearance spread quickly the next morning. Two investigators, Inspector Gilroy and Sergeant Lincoln, interviewed the Chamberlains, but doubts crept in almost immediately. Interviewed the Chamberlains, but doubts crept in almost immediately. Michael unsettled them with comments about Azaria's disappearance and possible death. Being a quote will of God, Lindy also seemed too calm and had trouble laying out a precise timeline of events.
Remi:I think a lot of people started to question them when they seemingly accepted the fate of their child relatively quickly.
Ashley:Also sorry she can't give you exact timelines when this happened. She is camping, there are no cell phones, there's certainly no clocks around and she's probably not examining her watch if she even has one every second of every day.
Remi:Not to mention the second that this event happens. All the other details about what you were doing beforehand probably go right out the window.
Ashley:Exactly, and she's probably still in shock and sleep deprived.
Remi:Seriously, you cannot expect an accurate account from this woman at this time.
Ashley:Adding to their suspicion. No independent witnesses had come forward yet to confirm seeing the baby at the campsite, but they also hadn't asked anyone either. Some officers even questioned whether a dingo could physically carry a 10-pound infant, though park rangers assured them it was entirely possible possible. In between two police interviews, the Chamberlain spent most of the morning talking with news outlets, reportedly on the advice of a police officer who told them it was better to speak openly than to avoid the press. One journalist even convinced Michael to drive the family back to the campsite so they could photograph him standing in front of the tent another action police privately noted as suspicious.
Lindy Chamberlain:And here's a clip from one of their interviews. That day and when I got in the tent, there was just nothing and I called for my husband I really couldn't believe the evidence in my own eyes and I called for Michael that Dingo's got the baby.
A Cry in the Dark scene:A cold shiver went up my spine. I thought this is absolutely ridiculous and I rushed into the tent and we looked around quickly and couldn't see anything. I thought my hat and I rushed out into the blackness and I felt as hopeless as I'd ever felt in my life.
Ashley:This family is just so pure. I love how he said and I thought to myself my hat Because he doesn't want to say God's name in vain.
Remi:There is a part in the film where the news helicopters are circling the Chamberlain's home and Lindy is just distressed and Michael is trying to calm her down and he gets so mad at the helicopters. He yells you bastards at them and then immediately goes to Lindy and begins apologizing like I'm sorry, honey, I didn't mean to use such language, but it's the only word that accurately describes them right now Like he was even upset that he used the word bastards in a situation like that. He's a very wholesome guy no smoking, no drinking. Very, very straight edge.
Ashley:Before heading home. On August 19th, the Chamberlains were asked to visit another campground to see if they could identify any of the wild dogs there. The Chamberlains were asked to visit another campground to see if they could identify any of the wild dogs there, but none of them were dingoes. During the visit, michael asked Constable Morris several questions, some of which seemed in poor taste. Could he take a photograph with the trackers? Could he see a skull of a dead dingo? Would Alice Springs consider putting up a memorial in Azaria's honor? Soon after, under orders from the Conservation Commission, all scavenging dogs and dingoes were to be shot so their stomach contents could be analyzed.
Remi:This is also in the film.
Ashley:This news troubled Les Harris, president of the Dingo Foundation. Through his job, he studied the habits of dingoes for years and kept two as companions in his home. He calls Inspector Gilroy directly, warning that the plan was pointless since any potential human remains would have been digested within 10-24 hours.
Remi:He also spoke about dingoes' manipulating abilities In the film. It shows that the Chamberlains are also against this idea.
Ashley:He also spoke about Dingo's manipulating abilities, in that they could easily peel off and discard anything that was not perceived as food. His warning about the empty stomachs proved accurate, but the elimination process went forward anyway. Not long after the case was handed over to Detective Trollwood, head of the Criminal Investigation Unit. In his case summary, inspector Gilroy listed a series of points he felt undermined Lindy's story. He cited unfounded reports that Lindy was a neglectful mother who dressed her baby in all black, rumors that no one actually saw Azaria at the campground and speculation that she might have been carrying around an empty bundle of cloth all day.
Remi:That is just preposterous. Somebody would notice if she was just carrying around a pile of rags all day.
Ashley:He even claimed the name Azaria meant. Quote sacrifice in the wilderness.
Remi:Now they're just making shit up. That can't possibly be true.
Ashley:In reality, the masculine version of the name means whom God aids.
Remi:Yeah, that sounds a lot more accurate.
Ashley:Gilroy also suggested the puncture marks found on the blankets in the tent looked more like they'd been made by a knife than animal teeth. This marked a shift in focus in the investigation from a dingo attack to the possibility of human involvement.
Remi:So this was him just visually, stating that it looked different than dingo teeth, like he just looked at it and said looks like knife marks.
Ashley:At this point. Yep, just his opinion on what it looks like.
Remi:That's outrageous.
Ashley:A break in the case arrived on August 24th 1980. Wally Goodwin was hiking Ayers Rock with his family when he stumbled upon a shredded diaper and blood-stained singlet. He considered taking a photo of the clothing but decided against it, something he would soon regret. The clothing was found about six kilometers away from the campsite, but in the opposite direction of the search area. Crucially, it was also near several dingo layers, including one with a recent litter. When Constable Morris arrived he picked up the singlet and discovered two booties tucked into each leg. He assured Goodwin he would put the clothing back exactly as he found it, but Goodwin immediately noticed it was not placed the same way.
Ashley:Instead it was returned in a neater folded manner this is not explained, as small as it may have seemed at the time, would later be twisted into evidence of guilt at the Chamberlain's inquests and trial. At this point nearly all of Azaria's clothing had been recovered, except for the matinee jacket Lindy insisted she was wearing over the singlet. This absence became a cornerstone of the prosecution's case. Since this was the only article of clothing still missing, the prosecution believed Lindy lied about its existence entirely. The Chamberlains learned about the discovery of the clothing through the media, a pattern that would become commonplace for them throughout the rest of the investigation.
Remi:Could you imagine finding out all of this information just watching the evening news?
Ashley:It would be so awful. I do know that currently there is extra care taken to make sure families are notified of big news developments like this, to avoid this exact scenario.
Remi:As it should be.
Ashley:Well, and TV stations even broadcast footage of the torn bloody clothing over audio clips of the Chamberlain speaking, further fueling a sense of suspicion and spectacle.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Were you surprised Azaria's clothing was found hardly torn?
Lindy Chamberlain:No, not really Not having watched wild bingoes feed on cattle and things like that. They use their feet like hands and pull back the skin as they go, and they'll just peel it like an orange.
Remi:This is also in the film. I feel like I'm an echo chamber over here and I also want to point out that with these clips, it's the first time I've seen any footage of Lindy during the time that all of this was transpiring, and Meryl Streep definitely captured her essence very well in her look and demeanor and poise. It's pretty uncanny.
Ashley:The haircut is the exact same.
Remi:The eyebrows as well. Meryl Streep pointed that out in several interviews that she had her eyebrows plucked specifically the way that Lindy did, because they are plucked in a manner that kind of gives her a cold exterior. They're very flat.
Ashley:Rumors about the family swirled almost immediately. Harassing phone calls and visits from strangers became an everyday occurrence. Tabloids repeated wild accusations about Azaria's name meaning sacrifice in the wilderness, Lindy and Michael slaying her in some kind of ritual, them somehow being connected to the Jonestown massacre, and even that the baby hadn't existed at all. Rather than bringing clarity, the discovery of the clothing fueled an atmosphere of hostility and doubt. Forensic testing on Azaria's clothing and blankets continued throughout September. Samples were passed around to multiple labs across the country, immediately creating chain of custody issues that would be ignored by the prosecution.
Remi:What is a chain of custody?
Ashley:It's like you're taking care to not contaminate evidence as it's being transferred through hands or from place to place.
Remi:Okay, so the more places it's sent, the more likelihood of contamination. Exactly it sent, the more likelihood of contamination.
Ashley:Exactly. One of the first specialists brought in was Kenneth Brown, an expert in human bite mark analysis, which I will know has since been debunked. Dr Brown was not trained in textile damage but reviewed Azaria's clothing and concluded the tears looked more like cuts from a sharp instrument than punctures from dingo teeth. Sergeant Barry Cox, who had no forensic training at all, agreed and conducted his own makeshift experiments using a pair of scissors to show he could reproduce similar-looking cuts. No doubt this took him several tries to perfect. To further test their theories, dr Brown proposed an experiment After withholding food from captive dingoes for five days, handlers gave them an animal carcass wrapped in fabric similar to Azaria's clothing.
Remi:What the fuck kind of test is this? They're starving dingoes for five days.
Ashley:And after three attempts the damage they left behind didn't match the marks on her garments.
Remi:Because they were starving.
Ashley:From this, dr Brown concluded the clothing was inconsistent with the dingo attack, and other experts weighed in as well. Dr Harding examined hairs found in the tent and Azaria's clothing. It was his opinion that none of them were canine. Two other biologists thought they were likely from a household pet, but couldn't rule out the possibility they were from a dingo.
Remi:Did the Chamberlains have a household pet? That was never shown in the film.
Ashley:So they had a couple cats and a dog in recent years, but by the time Azaria was come around, the animals had died or gotten lost, like ran away and never came back.
Remi:So they did not currently have any pets in which this hair would have come from.
Ashley:Not at the time. No, A botanist examined soil samples from the clothing and identified seven different plant species, which might make sense if a body was dragged a long distance, but in his view the soil wasn't consistent with the site where the clothes were found. To him it looked staged, like the clothing was rubbed in dirt and deliberately placed at the recovery spot, probably because he thought it was folded rather than discarded, as Wally Goodwin insisted he found it. Initially. Investigators also wanted to test the fabric for dingo saliva. This task fell to Dr Andrew Scott. The problem was that dingoes don't carry the same enzyme used to detect human saliva, which meant the standard method was useless. Dr Scott attempted to get around this by inventing an entirely new testing method, one that tried to replicate proteins. In the same way, species of fish are identified. His work was experimental and unproven. Nonetheless, he concluded, no traces of dingo saliva were found on Azaria's clothes.
Remi:You can really find a quote-unquote expert to testify about anything in a trial.
Ashley:Those are called hired guns. By the end of September the Chamberlains were summoned to the police station for questioning. Sergeant Charlewood was deeply suspicious of them even entertaining the idea that Azaria could have been killed days before she was reported missing. Over two days of interrogation he pressed them on the forensic findings, but Lindy and Michael's accounts never wavered.
Ashley:As news of an impending inquest spread in November, dingo expert Les Harris tried yet again to intervene. He sent letters to the Alice Springs Court and Chamberlain's lawyers outlining several key points. First, he explained that blood patterns on the clothing could absolutely be consistent with a dingo attack absolutely be consistent with the dingo attack. Second, he noted that dingoes are efficient eaters and not heavy salivators. So the absence of saliva wasn't surprising, especially if Azaria was wearing that matinee jacket over the singlet.
Ashley:Third, dingoes are more than capable of carrying prey up to 20 pounds long distances. Finally, he highlighted the flaws in Dr Brown's zoo experiment, pointing out the differences between captive and wild dingoes, especially those at Arrows Rock that had grown accustomed to people but maintained their hunting instincts. He ended his letter with the unequivocal conclusion that a dingo could have taken and killed the baby. Equivocal conclusion that a dingo could have taken and killed the baby. A formal inquest began on December 15th 1980 and ran until February 20th 1981, which included a holiday break. This is a sharp contrast to the second one, which we'll get to in a second that was only 10 days.
Remi:Wow, yeah, the film does not really give any indication about how much time has passed, so I really had no clue how long these trials were.
Ashley:Australian inquests are overseen by magistrate judges who determine how the proceedings are run, including what witnesses to call and in what order. They're kind of like a grand jury trial in the United States. Normally, if there is even a possibility of serious charges, a careful magistrate might avoid compelling witness testimony from the potential accused right away, since protections for those giving evidence is limited. But in this case the Chamberlains were the very first witnesses called. By then the family had moved to Avondale College because their home in Mount Isa had been overrun with reporters. But the hostility followed them to their new setting and, as you pointed out, they both did enroll in formal schooling.
Ashley:After this first inquest, the Chamberlains came across as heartbroken parents while giving testimony, not the cold, suspicious and detached people the media portrayed them to be. They tearfully recounted the events of August 17th while being forced to read the forensic reports that cast doubt on their innocence. After their testimony, the inquest heard from others who were at the campsite the night Azaria disappeared. These included the Wests and Lows Rangers Trackers and Wally Goodwin, the man who found Azaria's clothing. Their statements highlighted how much was omitted from the original police reports. Sally Lowe, for instance, recalled hearing the baby cry from inside the tent, while another woman testified about actually holding Azaria earlier in the day.
Remi:In the film she's parading Azaria all over the place. It seems like there would have been dozens of witnesses.
Ashley:As these witnesses spoke, a clear pattern emerged. Everyone who was at the scene believed Adingo was responsible. It was those who became involved after the fact police investigators and the public at large who were more skeptical.
Remi:They made up their mind and nothing can convince them otherwise.
Ashley:The last set of witnesses were the experts who conducted the forensic testing.
Ashley:At first their testimony seemed to support the prosecution, but the longer they spoke, the more errors, inconsistencies and lack of formal training emerged. For example, the doctor who examined the hairs wasn't told they were vacuumed before reaching his lab. This meant he couldn't determine whether the damage to them meant they were old or caused by the collection process. Other mistakes were even more striking. The forensic unit missed sprays of blood inside the tent, tested soil samples for blood when they should have tested it for saliva and misidentified certain fibers as animal hairs when they weren't. In the end, the magistrate was more persuaded by the eyewitnesses than the shaky forensic work. He pointed out that none of the on-scene witnesses had any connection to the Chamberlains. They had no motive or reason to invent a story about a dingo. This ruling was the first inquest finding to be broadcast live, and this is largely because the judge was so upset over the rumors that were circulating that he wanted to make it very known that this is my finding, to have no way for it to be disputed.
Judge's Verdict (real):I doth find that Azaria Cantal-Lorraine Chamberlain, a child then of nine weeks of age. Lorraine Chamberlain, a child then of nine weeks of age, met her death when attacked by a wild dingo. I further find that neither the parents of the child nor either of their remaining children were in any degree whatsoever responsible for this death. I find that, after her death, the body of Azaria was taken from the dingo and disposed of by a person or persons name unknown.
Remi:That last part is news to me. They're claiming that a person did handle the baby's corpse after it died at some point.
Ashley:It's his way of saying. He does think there was some sort of human interference, but he has no idea who that was.
Remi:But he is saying the chamberlains had nothing to do with the death he's completely positive that a dingo did kill azaria, but also believes that a person may have interacted with the body after the fact and I think it's because of that folded clothing. Ah, okay.
Ashley:After a conclusion of the inquest, the Chamberlains returned to their lives, blissfully unaware of what was happening behind the scenes. Rather than accepting the results of the inquest, a new police task was formed and the investigation went into overdrive. The renewed scrutiny began with Dr Alan Cameron, a professor of forensic medicine at the University of London and director of a similar department at the London Hospital Medical College, who specialized in infant injuries and deaths. After examining Azaria's clothing, he concluded the garments had been cut with scissors and that the blood on the jumpsuit was consistent with a neck wound. Supporting him was odontologist Bernard Sims, who asserted the punctures on the clothes were the result of cuts, not animal teeth. In keeping with trends, the media, not the Chamberlains or their defense team, were the first to learn about the renewed investigation.
Judge's Verdict (film):I've got to ask you this I have, from a police source, been told that there is no way a dingo could have taken your child. The forensic tests show that. What's your reaction to that?
Judge's Verdict (real):No comment. Is there some other story? Could an Aboriginal lady have your child? No no. It was definitely a dingo. We stand by our story.
Judge's Verdict (film):Where the clothing was found and the way it was arranged on the ground. It couldn't have been a dog. Well, we know nothing of this.
Lindy Chamberlain:What are the police on the case? So I'll directly ask this interview. I'm going to ring the ground. It couldn't have been a dog. Well, we know nothing of this. What are the police on the case?
Judge's Verdict (real):So I'll directly ask this interview. I'm going to ring up the police.
Judge's Verdict (film):I want to know. Well, I can't get hold of a source. Well, I'm going to Fennelbrook shortly because.
Lindy Chamberlain:Ring them now if you don't mind. Ring them now if you don't mind, all right, fine.
Judge's Verdict (film):You won't tell me, no, I can't do that, michael.
Remi:Wow, Wally unintentionally screwed this family to an insane degree.
Ashley:Well Constable Morris did by messing with it. Wally tried. He told everyone that would listen that clothing was not photographed the way it was found. But no one believed him.
Remi:The police force is literally putting their fingers in their ears and going la, la, la, la la. I can't hear you anytime someone is presenting evidence that contradicts what they believe.
Ashley:On September 19th 1981, police conducted a four andand-a-half-hour search of the Chamberlain home, seizing more than 300 items, including the original tent that had since been returned, clothing, michael's camera bag and a ton of camping supplies.
Remi:This is in the film as well and, yeah, they pretty much raid the family's house and everything is left in disarray. Much raid the family's house and everything is left in disarray.
Ashley:Following the search, the Chamberlains again agreed to go to the police station for questioning. During the drive, Sergeant Charlwood attempted to elicit a confession from Lindy. He claimed a bloody handprint was found on one of Azaria's garments and suggested the new evidence showed she was decapitated rather than killed by a dingo.
Remi:And I want to point out as well that he was secretly recording this conversation, was he not? It was my impression that at the time it was completely legal for Australian police to record people during questioning without their knowledge.
Ashley:And at the time they would just record everything, so he had his recorder going on throughout the entire raid as well.
Remi:That is also depicted on screen.
Ashley:At the station. He asked the Chamberlains to provide handprints to compare, but they refused to cooperate without legal counsel. The next day, the police commissioner publicly announced the renewed investigation, reigniting a wave of rumors that Azaria was slain in some sort of ritual.
Remi:And I just gotta say again this is based on nothing, just people having a feeling that this happened this way.
Ashley:The Darwin Supreme Court held a protective hearing on November 20th 1981. They ultimately overturned the findings of the first inquest and ordered a second to begin the following month. The Chamberlain's legal team faced significant obstacles going into the second inquest. The prosecution refused to disclose the new evidence beforehand, forcing the couple to make a decision about testifying before knowing what they were up against. Refusing to testify would leave them vulnerable to being called anyway and needing to invoke their right to remain silent after every question. This would undoubtedly be portrayed by the press as an omission of guilt. In contrast, testifying would risk exposing them to attacks based on evidence they had never seen.
Ashley:The defense asked if the Chamberlains could be called last to allow them to hear all the evidence first, but their request was denied. Ultimately, both chose to testify. Michael went first and was questioned about the supposed blood evidence discovered in their car in October 1981. He explained that it could have come from minor injuries of their sons or a bleeding hitchhiker they took to the hospital in June 1979. Prosecutors also scrutinized his behavior during the search at Ayers Rock, insinuating his level of involvement suggested prior knowledge of Azari's death. When Lindy took the stand, the prosecution pressed her to provide a handprint framing her previous refusal as evidence of guilt.
Remi:It will be manipulated in some way against her, as all this other stuff has been.
Ashley:And privately. Her attorneys advised her to deny the request, since they kind of knew whatever the results were would be twisted to fit the prosecution's narrative. From the outset, it became clear that this inquest was an ambush. Before the second day of the inquest resumed, the press was escorted to the compound where they were allowed to take photos of the Chamberlain's car. It was completely dismantled with chalk marks highlighting the areas of the doors, carpet and hinges where blood was allegedly detected. The most notable marking was under the passenger side dashboard, where investigators claimed a fine spray of blood originated from where Azaria's neck was supposedly cut. Joy Kuehl, a biologist from the Sydney Health Commission, testified that hemoglobin consistent with infant blood was found in Michael's camera bag and on a towel in the back of the car. However, during cross-examination she admitted that other substances such as milk or vomit two things that babies are very well known for eating and spewing out could have produced the same reactions.
Remi:This person's testimony is depicted in the film.
Ashley:This was the first set of questions that cast doubt on the reliability of her conclusions. Next on the stand was Sergeant Barry Cox Mr I have Zero Forensic Training. He demonstrated how he believed Lindy cut Azaria's jumpsuit to stage it as a dingo attack. Notably, he used a pair of scissors much larger and sharper than the tiny ones used to trim nails that the prosecution suspected was the murder weapon. Additional witnesses, often lacking in expertise with wild animals, opined that the jumpsuit was cut, not torn, reflecting no evidence of dingo involvement. Through these testimonies, the prosecution's theory took shape. Lindy cut Azaria's throat in the family car and told Michael soon after. They then put the body in his camera bag, buried it later and cut the clothing to make it look like an animal tack, as you pointed out, all in 10 minutes. And cut the clothing to make it look like an animal tack, as you pointed out, all in 10 minutes and while this search was going on.
Remi:This is so improbable. It's just infuriating that they're even trying to propose that this happened in that amount of time, no less.
Ashley:In their closing arguments, the defense emphasized the glaring absence of any eyewitnesses who could support the Chamberlain's innocence. That's why I think this inquest was shorter, because anyone who was at the scene the trackers, the West, the Lowe's not called. They also pointed out the obvious the prosecution's case was entirely circumstantial. No one saw the baby die, there was no body, confirmed murder weapon or even a motive. Despite these gaps, the jury concluded within just two hours that there was sufficient evidence to move forward with criminal charges. In April 1982, lindy was charged with murder and Michael as an accessory. After the fact, both pleaded not guilty.
Ashley:With the trial looming, the defense immediately began building their case. They tracked down the hitchhiker Michael picked up in July 1979. He confirmed that the Chamberlains took him to the hospital after he sustained a serious head injury in a car accident. They also located hikers whose children were attacked by dingoes. That same year they also located hikers whose children were attacked by dingoes. The same year Azaria went missing and learned that Michael's camera bag the centerpiece of much of the prosecution's theory was a gift from a friend, meaning anything found inside could have predated Azaria's birth. Not long after, the press got word that Lindy was pregnant, sparking speculation that it was a calculated attempt to garner sympathy at trial.
Ashley:The Chamberlain trial began on September 13, 1982. To understand the process, it's worth noting some differences from trials in the states. At the time, assessment of juror bias was largely self-monitored. Potential jurors were reminded of their duty to remain impartial but were not examined for possible bias. The defense could dismiss 12 jurors without explanation, but only after the juror's name was called and before they reached the box, a window of about 40 seconds.
Remi:Wait. So it was like a beat the clock type thing. So they're called, they start approaching and they have that window of opportunity to dismiss them.
Ashley:Yes, and they only have basic information to make the snap judgment on, like the juror's name, address and occupation.
Remi:That seems like a way you would pick a partner on a game show, and not the way you would get a jury for a trial.
Ashley:Additionally, the prosecution wasn't required to disclose all evidence in advance.
Remi:So the defense would have no way of preparing ahead of time.
Ashley:I think they do disclose most of it, but it's not like a Brady violation, which is a Supreme Court case in the United States. If they don't disclose it In the United States, the prosecution has to disclose all exculpatory evidence to the defense. Otherwise it is something that can be appealed later on.
Remi:So there's not like surprise evidence and surprise testimony, that sort of thing which we see in movies.
Ashley:Yes, but it's not a two-way street. The defense does not have to do the same. In opening statements, the prosecution acknowledged the lack of motive but presented a precise timeline. They allege Lindy killed Azaria during the 5-10 minutes she was away from the tent after the family returned from hiking. As I said earlier, they claim she murdered the baby in the car and put her body in Michael's camera bag.
Remi:But even the prosecution is like we have no idea why she would do this. They have no motive whatsoever. They only have their series of events.
Ashley:And even though eyewitness Sally Lowe was confident she heard Azaria cry in the tent that evening, the prosecution insisted that was impossible because the baby was already dead. They further alleged the Chamberlains cleaned the car while the search for her was well underway. The prosecution began by calling several eyewitnesses from the campsite, including several campers who interacted with the family that day. While the prosecution attempted to downplay their testimony, cross-examination revealed these witnesses firmly believed a dingo had taken Azaria. They recounted hearing her cry, noticing blood inside the tent and observing that Lindy was within their line of sight the entire evening, making it highly unlikely she could have killed her baby or cleaned up the mess without anyone noticing.
Ashley:Next came a barrage of expert witnesses. The first group examined the tent, bedding and clothing. They testified that the hairs found were not from dingoes and there was insufficient blood on the materials to support such an attack. The defense countered by highlighting their lack of formal training in hair and blood identification, the mishandling of crucial evidence during transport and overlooked blood evidence that contradicted their conclusions. The next set of experts focused on Azaria's clothing. They argued the damage was consistent with cuts rather than dingo teeth, that tufts of fiber allegedly from scissor cuts were found in the camera bag and that blood on the clothing came from a neck injury. During cross-examination, the defense exposed major flaws in these conclusions. Some damage was caused by moths and none of the fibers in the bag had blood on them. One key witness, dr Cameron, admitted he heavily relied on the reports of other experts rather than reviewing the evidence firsthand.
Remi:Then you shouldn't be testifying dude.
Ashley:The defense also noted a prior case in which his testimony contributed to the wrongful conviction of three intellectually disabled men who were later pardoned of murder.
Remi:Oh, so this guy is just a scumbag.
Ashley:How it's portrayed in the book is that he just loves testifying and is very personable and is kind of willing to just side with whatever side hires him.
Remi:I said it before and I'll say it again you can find a quote-unquote expert to testify about anything in court.
Ashley:Finally, the prosecution presented testimony regarding the supposed blood found in the Chamberlain's car. The defense meticulously pointed out procedural errors, including Joy Kuehl's use of inappropriate testing methods. The defense began their arguments on October 13, 1982. Their primary witnesses included the Chamberlains themselves, character witnesses, individuals who experienced dingo attacks and eight scientific experts who challenged the prosecution's conclusions. These experts argue that the blood testing conducted by the prosecution was flawed, the supposed blood on the car could not have come from an infant and the blood on Azaria's singlet could have been consistent with a dingo attack. Despite the clarity of their testimony, the sheer volume of scientific evidence and the technicality of it all proved overwhelming for the jury.
Ashley:Ultimately, the trial hinged less on the experts and more on perceptions. The trial hinged less on the experts and more on perceptions. The jury had to decide what they thought about Lindy and whether they believed Dingo could have killed a baby. Deliberations started on October 28, 1982. Instructions from the judge. So I think this is where it is perceived that the judge was siding with the defense, because his instructions highlighted the divided scientific opinions and reminded the jurors to consider the number of dingo attacks in the area, the Chamberlain's good character and lack of criminal history and testimony of those present the night of Azaria's disappearance.
Remi:So basically reiterating like come on, guys, we know they didn't do this right.
Ashley:And they were also asked to think about whether a parent who killed their child would have kept the camera bag and car intact, as well as Mrs Lowe's unwavering claim that she heard Azaria cry.
Remi:We were talking about this earlier. We were talking about this earlier. The fact that, if what the prosecution say is correct, that means that Lindy murdered her daughter in this car and then never cleaned it and left evidence inside of it for over a year, seems kind of questionable.
Ashley:And maybe even if someone didn't have the money to get rid of a car and buy a new one, you could keep the camera bag.
Remi:Those are cheap rid of a car and buy a new one. You keep the camera bag. Those are cheap. Yeah, nothing about this is the behavior of someone who just murdered their child and is trying to cover up their tracks.
Ashley:Despite these instructions, the guilty verdict came the next day. Michael was sentenced to three years of probation. As you pointed out, it was originally 18 months in prison, but that was changed to three years of probation, and Lindy received a life sentence at Baruma Penitentiary with parole eligibility after 20 years. In this clip, their attorneys react to the verdict.
Chamberlain's Lawyer:Lindy reacted as gasped, as though she'd been shot. The judge almost apologetically sentenced Lindy to life in prison with hard labour. The jury was going out and I looked at her and called her you pack of bastards, you pack of bastards. It was like a punch in the stomach. I thought it was a great, great miscarriage of justice and would be a blight on Australia in years to come, because it was just wrong.
Judge's Verdict (real):We went down with the Chamberlains to the cells afterwards and they were, as you would imagine, really, really upset, Asking if they were innocent. How could this have happened?
Ashley:I just love that these attorneys like really truly believed in their client's innocence and were just devastated by the verdict.
Remi:I could not imagine going through this. I could not imagine going through this. This would be insane. To even try and mentally process the horrific tragedy you went through and then people just deciding that you had been the one to perpetrate it. I am so heartbroken and sympathetic for this family. This is so fucked up for this family.
Ashley:This is so fucked up. Lindy gave birth to her daughter, Kalia, three weeks later. She appealed in February 1983 and was released on bail while the court reviewed the case. She returned to prison after her conviction was upheld on April 30th 1983. So she was released for a period of time during this yeah, for like two months. Despite the unsuccessful appeal, Dr Barry Botcher, the defense's opposing blood expert, remained convinced of her innocence. To investigate Joy Kuehl's methods, he traveled to Germany and tested a sample of his own blood using the same serum she used to claim fetal blood was found in the car. The results were identical, further proving her method unreliable because Dr Botcher was clearly not a baby. Within the year 31, scientists formally protested her conclusions. Although she later acknowledged deficits in her testing, she stuck by her conclusions, yet still resigned from her position soon after.
Remi:Not gonna admit I'm wrong, but I'm still gonna resign.
Ashley:Support for Lindy persisted after she lost her second appeal on February 22, 1984. Advocacy groups, including the Melbourne Plea for Justice Committee and National Freedom Council, collected hundreds of thousands of signatures advocating for her release, reinvestigated the scene at Ayers Rock and organized rallies featuring key eyewitnesses such as Judy West, the Lowe's Dr Botcher dingo expert, les Harris, amateur tracker Maury Habe and Wally Goodwin, the man who discovered Azaria's clothing. Even Chief Ranger Derek Hoff publicly emphasized the danger of dingo attacks in the area. Remarkably, lindy's prison psychiatrist wrote a letter stating she was the only patient in his career he believed was wrongfully convicted.
Remi:Wow, just wow.
Ashley:Further scientific evidence strengthened her case. Dr Botcher demonstrated that the blood found in the car likely came from an adult. New hair analyses confirmed that at least six hairs on the tent bedding were canine, and a United States textile professor concluded that damage to Azaria's clothing could be consistent with chewing, Perhaps most striking. The supposed blood spray in the car the cornerstone of the prosecution's theory that Azaria was murdered was revealed to be overspray from a paint job.
Remi:This is brought up in the film as well, that they can both test positive under the same testing.
Ashley:Despite these developments, a judicial review of the case was denied.
Remi:What why?
Ashley:It's easier to deny it than to reopen the case. I don't know. During her imprisonment, lindy worked in the textile factory and often made clothing for her three kids. Michael, facing a crisis of faith, formally resigned as a minister In late January 1986, tragedy struck again at Ayers Rock when camper David Brett disappeared during a night hike. His body was discovered eight days later near the exact same location where Azaria's clothing was found. During the recovery, investigators noticed a knot of fabric sticking out of the dirt. It ended up being Azaria's missing matinee jacket.
Remi:The article of clothing, the prosecution this has got to be like a one in a billion chance that they happened to find this.
Ashley:The discovery prompted Lindy's release and the initiation of a Royal Commission investigation on February 7, 1986. In September 1988, the Supreme Court acquitted the Chamberlains, citing reasonable doubt about their guilt. The ruling referenced the misidentified blood in the car, flawed blood testing and the discovery of the jacket near the same dingo lair where Azaria's other clothes were found. Of the jacket near the same dingo lair where Azaria's other clothes were found. The Australian government paid Lindy $1.3 million in damages in 1992.
Ashley:It wasn't enough. Despite the acquittal, a third inquest in 1995 returned an open verdict, which meant the jury acknowledged Azaria's death as suspicious but didn't attribute it conclusively to dingo or human action.
Remi:Are you kidding me? This family has not been through enough. They went through this shit a third time.
Ashley:By then, the Chamberlains had divorced in 1991, but continued to search for a resolution to the case that would finally put to bed any question of their guilt. This finally came in June 2012, when a fourth inquest finally ruled that Azaria died from a dingo attack. Her death certificate was immediately amended Basically 30 years later. Composer wrote the opera Lindy in 2002. In 2021, australian drag queen Etc Etc portrayed Lindy on the Snatch Game episode of the first season of RuPaul's Drag Race Down Under, which was widely criticized as being in poor taste, and I have clips from that episode. Before we get to that, the Snatch Game for those of you who have never seen rupaul's drag race is when each contestant picks someone to impersonate lindy chamberlain is here tonight.
Ashey:Is there a public? Statement you'd like to make has anyone seen my baby?
A Cry in the Dark scene:his breath smells like I wrote down an answer and I stepped away for a second to heat up a can of baked beans and the dingo got my answer. Oh, yes. Oh my God, so much tragedy in your life.
Judge's Verdict (film):I'm battling through the grief to write an answer and I wrote.
Judge's Verdict (real):Hang on Ru. Did you hear something? No, what Did you? What is it?
A Cry in the Dark scene:Oh my God, it's the dingo. Oh my God wow, um, etc.
Remi:Etc.
Ashley:You can sashay away I used to watch rupaul religiously and I love the Snatch Game and this one was just not funny at all.
Remi:It was very, very cringe to watch this.
Ashley:She also looks a little bit more like a sex worker versus like a mom of three kids.
Remi:She does not look like Lindy Chamberlain at all.
Ashley:She does not look like Lindy Chamberlain at all and, for those of you listening at home, she brought out a dingo hand puppet that she pretended to have attack her, and that's how her portion ended, and it didn't look like a dingo hand puppet either. So F's all around. Ingrid Berner in 1994 and had a daughter named Zara in 1996. He earned a PhD in education and worked as a high school teacher until retiring in 2008. He published three books, including one about the case, and became his wife's full-time caretaker after she suffered a stroke in 2011. After she suffered a stroke in 2011., he died from leukemia on January 9, 2017.
Ashley:Lindy Chamberlain married Rick Creighton in December 1992. She is 77 and published three books about her experience. I really wanted to read one of her books for this podcast, but the shortest one is like 700 pages and the other two are 900. And I just don't have the time to have read that before we had to put this forward. I do fully support and recommend, if anyone actually wants to learn more about the case, to buy her book versus Evil Angels.
Remi:I'm sure she had a lot to say about this.
Ashley:And I think it's fitting that we let her have the final words.
Lindy Chamberlain:You never forget. There are little things that, out of the blue, remind you, and you can just see a fleeting glimpse in the side of her face, the movement of an arm that links what the person that you loved and lost did, and it hits you just there what real memories do you have of her? I've got lots of them, but I think that's one thing I'll keep to me.
Ashley:And that is the true story of Fred Shapisi's A Cry in the Dark.
Remi:I must say, during all the clips that you've shown me throughout your section here, I did not see the cold-blooded killer that the people of Australia apparently did, killer that the people of Australia apparently did. She may not have been overly emotional or anything like that, but in no way did she come across as someone who would have murdered her own child for literally no reason.
Ashley:The only thing I can think of is that this was in the 1980s when all of this started and she wasn't sobbing in front of the cameras at every opportunity she spoke to the media. Now we've learned a lot more about how trauma and grief is processed not nearly as much as we should know, but we know more than we did back in the day, and so I just think because she wasn't crying all the time publicly that that was taken as an admission of guilt or something that the public viewed as suspicious.
Remi:But beyond that, yes, she was not crying and all of that. But again, I guess this comes with time. Everyone grieves in their own way, but it still seems like a crazy snap judgment to make about a person for a crime so serious like this, based on such flimsy evidence and like a gut feeling.
Ashley:And the fact that blew my mind too is even putting aside everything that happened up to her trial, but the fact that a third inquest happened and the jury still, after everything that was publicized about it, still said that they were not going to rule in Lindy's favor. Instead, they were just keeping it open as she did it or Dingo did it that is mind boggling to me.
Remi:This is one of the few episodes that I was getting like pissed off the more I learned about this. This is so horrible what these people were put through, that it was literally making me angry hearing about all of this and the fact that they had to go through a fourth one and they weren't even cleared of everything until 2012? That's mind-bogglingly insane.
Ashley:And it's just so sad. Not only did this family lose a baby, not only was this woman in prison for several years, but their marriage ended. Her husband, who was a devout pastor, had to quit his job because he was just so torn up rightfully so about this whole process and was unable to continue preaching in the way that he had been doing and raised to do his entire life.
Remi:And I don't blame someone for having a crisis of faith when faced with something like this. It's an innocent husband and wife whose life is ruined after facing one of the most horrific tragedies a family could ever face. I understand why he had some second thoughts about things after all that transpired.
Ashley:And then, through it all, despite continued decades of trying to publicly prove that they did not kill their baby, they have to deal with all of these movies, tv shows, game shows, making fun of them.
Remi:It was literally everywhere for years and I thought of it as a joke. I remember being in school saying the dingo ate my baby, having absolutely no point of reference of where it was from, and it's so heartbreaking to think that this poor family had to go through this for their entire lives, after already going through one of the most traumatic, terrible ordeals that a family could ever go through and just being reminded of it as a joke forever.
Ashley:Can you imagine being the Chamberlains and just sitting down to watch your favorite show, seinfeld, and that joke coming on? It would just be so upsetting.
Remi:Or several years later they could have watched Supernatural or, years after that, rupaul's Drag Race. It was everywhere. Like the family could just be minding their own business, getting about their life, and have an unnecessary reminder be made a joke of.
Ashley:I think this is a good reminder that jokes can be made in good taste, but they can also be made in poor taste and have long-lasting ramifications.
Remi:Well, it's clear that we both have a lot of strong opinions about this case, but let's see if we have any minor grievances about changes made between the case and the film. In our objection of the week, your Honor, I object. And why is that, mr Reed? Because it's devastating to my case. And why is that, mr Reed?
Judge's Verdict (film):Because it's devastating, to my case, overruled, good call.
Remi:I will go first this week, since I'm pretty sure I'm already going to be losing this time around, because my objection is not really something that they changed, but more of something that they didn't include, and that was Wally Goodwin. I think that there should have been a slight emphasis on the fact that this guy found it and turned it over and it was folded, and I think that detail really played a huge factor in how the case went down. And Wally is never really addressed or seen, and it's not really necessary that he is, but it is something that I would have liked to see included and that's pretty weak. So, whatever yours is, I'm sure it's gonna beat me.
Ashley:I actually really, really, really like that one. I think that's a pretty big omission the movie made Because it was a huge contention. It was one of the primary reasons she was convicted. The jury and public thought a dingo can't fold clothes. These clothes were folded. And then there was Wally Goodwin who was the one that found the clothes, insisted they weren't folded but didn't have any proof of that. And then Constable Morris was adamant that he returned the clothes exactly as they found. So people just believed the uniformed officer. But Wally Goodwin advocated for her innocence throughout this entire process, even joining the committee to publicly speak in support of her at rallies.
Remi:Exactly, and in the film it's portrayed as someone who presumably is Wally, discovering the discarded piece of Azaria's clothing in the ground, and from there it just cuts to a news report saying that it was discovered neatly folded, despite the shot we just saw clearly not being neatly folded. So there wasn't really an explanation of what was going on there. And if Wally Goodman was a character, I think that would have added more to the story and especially if it was someone who was repeatedly trying to speak up on their behalf, I think that would have been a good inclusion in the film.
Ashley:Okay, so it was hinted at, but it wasn't clearly shown that someone picked up the clothes and put them down.
Remi:It has shown them picking up the clothes. It has not shown them putting them back down and like having them neatly folded afterwards. It shows someone finding it, picking it up and from there it goes to the news broadcast. So there's a bit of a gap there where I was wondering wait a minute. I just saw the clothing and now they're saying it was found neatly folded and the inclusion of Wally Goodwin would have accounted for that.
Ashley:Mine is that I recall you saying at the very beginning. When Lindy hears the baby cry, she walks back to the tent and can see the dingo has something in its mouth and shoos it away.
Remi:I want to point out that in the film you can see that it has something in its mouth and shoos it away. I want to point out that in the film you can see that it has something in its mouth. It's not clear if Lindy sees that it has something in its mouth. It is just obvious on screen.
Ashley:Okay, dang it. Well then I'll take that away. How about this one? You had said that the only evidence of a dingo being there, other than what Lindy saw, was one paw print where there was clearly a track that at least two people followed.
Remi:In the film it is a single paw print. It may be alluded to that there's more, but in the film it seems like they discover just a single paw print out in the outback.
Ashley:Okay, then that will be mine, because there were actually paw prints found in front of the tent, in the back of the tent, where actually Baby Azaria's bassinet was laid. So it was kind of like the dingo sniffed her and you could see the paw prints traveling from the back of the tent, from the bassinet, to the front of the tent, and then you could actually follow the trail tent from the bassinet to the front of the tent and then you could actually follow the trail.
Remi:In the film they mention blood being found around the tent, but not any dingo prints. So I think you've got that one. It's a weak one, but yeah, you've got our objection of the week for this time around.
Ashley:Well, I think the difficulty we had, even finding something, will lead nicely into our verdict factual but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars.
Remi:You can start things off this time around, since I did our objection of the week first.
Ashley:I'm going to keep this short and sweet because I would be flabbergasted if anyone had any sort of opinion in their mind. This film is so clearly not guilty. I had two objections, one you had just explained away. You had one which was an omission kind of, because they alluded to it. It just wasn't clear enough, the whole folded versus not folded thing. If you didn't know anything about the case, you'd be a little lost. If you read up on this case, you'd know exactly what the director was insinuating in that scene. Other than that, we have nothing. We have nothing else to fault this film for. This film is probably the biggest not guilty verdict we've encountered to date.
Remi:And I gotta disagree 100%, ashley. This is a hard guilty. It is clear that this woman did this crime. No, are you crazy? This is clearly a not guilty. Lindy is an innocent woman who was put through the most traumatic event imaginable, as well as her husband, and I think the film does the best job of any film we have covered to date of portraying the events exactly as they happened.
Remi:There's a lot of stuff in this movie that would have been streamlined. In normal films they leave locations, they go back to locations, there's a lot of like going in and out and returning to stuff and then coming back to it, and all of that would have been streamlined in an American production, and I am very grateful that they did not do that. And I think that this is the truest version of the story that we could get, and it is starring the greatest actress of our generation and one of the most brilliant actors of our generation as well. The film was done with respect. The film was done accurately and, like you said, the only things we have to knock it for are omissions that didn't necessarily even need to be included, because the film is from the Chamberlain's point of view. So, yeah, this is probably the biggest not guilty I have ever given to a single film on our podcast, so bravo. A Cry in the Dark aka Evil Angels.
Ashley:Well, now we are closing the book on our first wrongful conviction, we have another first coming up on the podcast next week, don't we remy?
Remi:yes, next week we will be covering our very first foreign film, but not just any foreign film a foreign film directed by academy award-winning director bong joon-ho, who directed parasite, and this is one of his earlier films, memories of Murder, about the most notorious serial killer in South Korean history.
Ashley:Very excited to hear about that. I've been pushing for a foreign film since season one. This is not the foreign film I was pushing for. We're keeping that one on the back burner, but I'm very excited to hear about this movie and do the research about our case. It's also our seasonal serial killer episode, so we are, no pun intended, killing two birds with one stone with this one.
Remi:Yeah, we like to have at least one serial killer per season, not multiple serial killers. That's kind of overkill. I'm pardon the pun again, but I look forward to talking about this movie. I don't know much about it, but I've seen all of Bong Joon-ho's other films. He is a brilliant director. I love Parasite. We just recently saw Mickey 17, which was kind of trashed on but was pretty entertaining in my opinion. So I look forward to taking a step back to one of his films from the early 2000s where he was just getting started about a real life event, which is something I don't think he has done since this film.
Ashley:And stay tuned at the end for a clip from the trailer. But before we play that, we want to again thank you all for listening and don't forget to tell a friend, rate, review, subscribe and until then, court is adjourned.
Ashley:There's one more woman who's dead. It's because the body hasn't come out yet. She disappeared on July 18th two months ago.
A Cry in the Dark scene:Who am I? Dokgo Hyun-soon, she doesn't get along with me.
Ashley:If Hyun-soon doesn't know me, in this neighborhood, she's an spy Next to the train station in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood in the the.
