Criminal Adaptations
Criminal Adaptations is a True Crime/Movie Review Podcast discussing some of your favorite films, and the true crime stories that inspired them. With hosts Remi, who spent over a decade working in the film and television industry, and Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator. They discuss a new movie each week and compare the film to the real life events that the film is based on.
Criminal Adaptations
Wonderland
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week we dive into the dark, drug-fueled world portrayed in James Cox’s Wonderland (2003), staring Val Kilmer, and compare it to the chilling real-life story of John Holmes and the infamous 1981 Laurel Canyon Murders. The film presents a stylized, fragmented, multi-perspective account, primarily told by two unreliable narrators, begging the question – who can be believed? Along the way, we break down Holmes’s rise in the adult film industry, his crimes and addiction, and his connection to the brutal crimes that shocked Los Angeles. We also compare the real events to the film’s version – highlighting what Wonderland got right, where it took creative liberties, and how conflicting accounts shaped both the case and the movie. Was Holmes a victim of circumstance, a willing participant, or something in between?
Primary Sources:
- Rolling Stone (1989)
- Wadd: The Life & Times of John C. Holmes (1999)
- Lange, Tom & Souza, Robert. Malice in Wonderland: The Inside Story of the Police Investigation of the Laurel Canyon Murders. (2018).
Instagram: @CriminalAdaptations
Email us: criminaladaptations@gmail.com
TikTok: @criminaladaptations
YouTube: @criminaladaptations
X: x.com/CriminalAdapt
Theme: DARKNESS (feat. EdKara) by Ghost148
Welcome To Criminal Adaptations
RemiWelcome to Criminal Adaptations, where we take a look at some of your favorite movies and the true crime stories that inspired them. I'm Remy. I spent over a decade working in the film and television industry in Los Angeles, California.
AshleyAnd I'm Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator in the state of Oregon.
RemiWelcome back, everyone. We are back with another episode. And Ashley, are you ready to talk about Alice, the Mad Hatter, and Tweedledum and Tweedledee? Because you know I am.
AshleyNo, no, Remy, wrong Wonderland.
RemiI may have done the wrong research then.
AshleyThe actual Wonderland we're talking about today is about a porn star and quadruple murder, so much less child-friendly.
RemiIndeed. Today we will be discussing the James Cox film Wonderland, starring Val Kilmer as the late porn star John Holmes, aka Johnny Wad. Did you know anything about John Holmes before we decided to do this episode, Ashley?
AshleyI was blissfully unaware of his existence, thankfully.
RemiI had heard of him and done a little research into him in the past, largely because the film Boogie Nights was loosely inspired by parts of John Holmes's life. Now, me and Ashley recently watched Boogie Knights, and I know you are fresh off of all the Johnny Wad research that you've been doing. So Ashley, I have to ask you, after watching Boogie Nights, how close do you think the film actually was to the real John Holmes?
AshleyGod, not close at all. So we made the right decision covering Wonderland instead. With Boogie Nights, really the only similarity is that it involves a young guy who becomes a porno sensation because of his large member. There's like a couple other funny things that Paul Thomas Anderson put in there. I read on IMDV trivia that he watched this 1981 documentary called Exhausted that John Holmes participated in, and that's how he came to know who John Holmes was and was just really fascinated by him. So the scene with Mark Wahlberg like hyping himself up in the mirror, apparently that is a scene that was in the documentary. And there's one other funny thing that I read in the book that I read for this, or in the research that I did for this that is depicted in the film, but I'm gonna save it and I want you to identify it when we get there.
RemiWell, alrighty then. This film also stars the late great Val Kilmer as
Val Kilmer Legacy And AI Debate
RemiJohn Holmes, who sadly passed away of pneumonia on April 1st, 2025 at the age of 65. Kilmer, of course, has given legendary performances in films like Tombstone and The Doors. Ashley, do you have a favorite Val Kilmer performance?
AshleySo I've actually never seen Tombstone, but I heard he's like the best part of that movie. I actually have never seen Heat or Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. So that leaves me with the Doors, Top Gun, and Batman Forever. I'm gonna go with the Doors.
RemiHe is brilliant in The Doors as Jim Morrison. His performance as Doc Holiday in Tombstone is probably one of the best cowboy performances I've ever seen in a movie. And Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is sort of an underappreciated gem. I really like that film. The story kinda is convoluted, but Val Kilmer and Robert Downey Jr. playing off each other in that film is comedic gold.
AshleyWell, and we saw a trailer a couple days ago that has Val Kilmer in it. What's going on here?
RemiYes, Val Kilmer's career will also apparently be continuing from Beyond the Grave with the upcoming film, As Deep as the Grave, through an AI-generated performance. Kilmer had originally been cast in the project before his death, but never filmed his scenes due to health issues. The filmmakers later used archival footage, photos, and voice recordings to digitally recreate him for the film with the approval of Kilmer's estate and the involvement of his children, particularly his daughter, Mercedes Kilmer. And we saw this trailer the other day and thought that he had filmed parts of it before passing away, and they had maybe digitally put his younger face on his son or someone like that. But no, this is completely AI, and it's the first big celebrity to have their likeness depicted in this way in a feature-length film, and it's very controversial. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing today, though I do think that AI will not be able to duplicate the original performances that Kilmer gives. They're only basing it off of stuff he did in the past, and Kilmer brought something new to every role that he did. And I think just recreating him based on stuff he did in the past is never going to do the actor any justice.
AshleyAlso, it's not listed on his IMDB, so I feel like that's going to be a big deterrent from people wanting to be AI generated.
RemiWell, Ashley, are you ready to head through the cocaine-covered looking glass and into the pre-production of Wonderland? Let's do it.
Wonderland (clip)Yeah, that's the best party I've ever been to. Well, it's only the beginning, baby. LA in the summer. Anything, right?
RemiWonderland is a 2003 American film co-written and directed by James Cox,
Wonderland Production And Casting
Remistarring Val Kilmer, Kate Bosworth, Dylan McDermott, Carrie Fisher, Lisa Coudreau, Josh Lucas, Christina Applegate, Tim Blake Nelson, and Janine Garofalo. That is quite the cast, though many of them maybe have one line, Max, in the whole film. Like many films, Wonderland had a pretty long road before finally making its way to the big screen. At the 1998 Cannes Film Festival, a film about the Wonderland murders was announced with Michael Bean set to play John Holmes, Tim Daly co-starring, and Nick Valogna attached to direct. But like many independent films at Cannes, the project never actually made it into production after the financing fell through and the movie stalled in development. However, the original draft written by Todd Samovitz didn't disappear entirely. When the project was revived in the early 2000s and James Cox came on board to direct, he and co-writers Captain Mauser and D. Loriston Scott reworked the earlier script into the final version that was ultimately filmed. To make the story as accurate as possible, director James Cox and producer Holly Wersma tracked down two people who knew John Holmes better than almost anyone. His widow, Sharon Holmes, and his former girlfriend, Dawn Schiller. By that point, the two women had become close friends after Holmes' death in 1988, and both served as consultants on the film, helping the filmmakers better understand Holmes' life and the events surrounding the Wonderland murders. Casting the role of John Holmes went through a few changes before the film finally went into production. Early in development, Matt Dillon was the first choice to play Holmes, but he ultimately passed on the role so that he could focus on directing and starring in his own film, City of Ghosts. Once Dillon left the project, the role eventually went to Val Kilmer, who had already built a reputation for playing complicated real-life figures such as Jim Morrison in the Doors. Director James Cox cast Kilmer to capture both the charisma and the self-destructive side of Holmes during the final years of his life. Kilmer committed fully to the part, physically transforming himself and immersing himself in the character during the film's brief production.
Wonderland (clip)I think that the drug addiction came because this world of pornography was not a world that he enjoyed. So he had his extremely low self-esteem, and that n just a chronic need to try and get out of that feeling of uncomfortableness, I think, led him to uh to drug.
AshleyI don't know. From what I've seen and read about John Holmes, I think he very much liked the porn industry.
RemiWell, one aspect of Holmes that Kilmer was definitely not able to embody was the alleged 14-inch penis Holmes was widely rumored to have. As a result, Kilmer reportedly wore a prosthetic in the film, though it is never actually seen on screen.
AshleyUnlike Mark Wahlberg's in Boogie Nights.
RemiVal Kilmer and Josh Lucas both spent a night in the Real Wonderland house, and on the anniversary of the murders, no less, as a way of immersing themselves in the atmosphere of the place where the crime happened. Which, personally speaking, is sorta dark and fucked up. And I also want to mention that I have seen this house in reality. I used to take the Hollywood Hills to get to my home when I lived in Los Angeles, and passed this house on a few separate occasions, and it really just looks like a nondescript apartment from the outside. And I even remember the first year that I moved out to LA, the apartment was up for rent, so someone out there is living in this apartment currently. Christina Applegate also had a personal connection to the story, having grown up near Wonderland Avenue, and even remember seeing a bloody mattress that had been dragged out into the street shortly after the murders. That memory stuck with her and was one of the primary reasons she agreed to appear in the film, despite having a relatively small role. That is a weird coincidence. I know, right? I always forget Christina Applegate is in this film. She has her hair dyed brown, and she really only has a handful of lines in the entire film. So I forget she's in this, actually. Throughout the production, Val Kilmer was said to have taken a large number of behind-the-scenes photographs and even planned to turn them into a book documenting the making of the movie. Though the project was unfortunately never officially released. And finally, despite the size of the cast and the complexity of the story, the entire movie was shot incredibly quickly, with the production lasting just 18 days. Okay, Ashley, the blueprints have been drawn, the back doors unlocked. Are you ready to head inside and hear the film's version of the Wonderland story?
AshleyYeah, I'm reluctantly ready.
RemiHe was called the king. According to legend, he gained worldwide notoriety.
Film Plot Setup Dawn Meets Holmes
RemiAccording to legend, he slept with 14,000 women. This is the story of what happened once the legend was over. We then fade in on Monday, June 29th, 1981, in Los Angeles, where we're introduced to a teenage girl named Dawn Schiller, played by Kate Bosworth, who is in the middle of being evicted from her motel room over delinquent payments tied to her boyfriend, who has been MIA for the past few days. With no other options, Dawn sits on the curb outside, nervously biting her fingernails, clutching her shaking chihuahua as she anxiously waits for her boyfriend to return, eventually breaking down and starting to cry. A kind-hearted woman named Sally Hansen, played by Princess Leia herself Carrie Fisher for some reason, pulls over in her Volkswagen Beetle to check on Dawn, sees how shaken she is, and offers her a place to stay. Back at Sally's place, Dawn leaves an angry voicemail for her boyfriend, telling him where she is. Not long after, a loud muscle car comes to a screeching halt across multiple parking spaces in front of Sally's apartment. Moments later, John Holmes, played by Val Kilmer, comes bursting through the door like a coked-up Cosmo Kramer, clearly on drugs and enjoying every moment of it. Dawn immediately starts laying into him for abandoning her, so John quickly ushers her into the bathroom to talk in private. Once inside, he pops open his briefcase to reveal a massive brick of cocaine, then casually yanks the mirror off the wall, and swiftly lines up two thick white rails across the glass like snow-covered train tracks. After snorting the drugs like flonets, the two begin having sex until they are interrupted by Sally, who walks in unexpectedly and ejects the debaucherous couple from her apartment, effective immediately.
AshleyGod, poor Sally, she was just trying to do a kind gesture.
RemiSeriously, she was just trying to be nice, and this is like the most disrespectful thing that you could possibly do in this woman's house. She literally was just giving this poor teenage girl a place to stay, and this is what happens? Uh, it's pretty fucked up. Kicked out once again, John and Dawn scramble back to his car and peel out of the parking lot as the opening credits begin to roll. Sidebar, throughout the film, Val Kilmer wears a chain around his neck with a ring on it, which was the actual wedding band John Holmes gave his wife Sharon when they got married in 1965. Sharon loaned it to Kilmer during filming as a good luck charm, and when production rapped, she ended up giving it to Dawn Schiller.
AshleyI don't know if Dawn would have wanted it. She gets put through the ringer.
RemiI don't know if it would be much of a good luck charm either, from the way both of their relationships worked out. We then cut to John and Dawn, pulling into an apartment on Wonderland Avenue. John tells Dawn to stay in the car, promising he'll be back in five minutes. Moments later, shouting erupts from inside when suddenly something comes crashing through a window, sending shattered glass out onto the street. After the commotion dies down, John re-emerges a little shaken up, but now holding a fresh wad of cash for his efforts. Not long after, John brings Dawn to a new motel where he immediately barricades the door with a chair, pulls the blinds shut, and starts freebasing cocaine out of a crack pipe while nervously checking out the window every so often. Once he's good and high, John tells Dawn he'll be back in an hour, then heads out again to trade more cocaine for cash.
AshleyI would say the whole pulling the blinds shut and barricading the door was a bit paranoid, but John Holmes surrounded himself with a shady cast of characters.
RemiYeah, and before he leaves, Dawn tries to stop him, like she has some sort of intuition that something bad will happen when he leaves. But John is really high, so he just kinda brushes her off and heads out anyway. And he doesn't return until three days later, on the morning of Thursday, July 2nd, carrying a six-pack of beer and mumbling to himself incoherently. Dawn asks where he's been, but all she gets is a vague, despondent mention of a car accident on the freeway with no real explanation. John then downs a handful of pills, chugs a Budweiser, and quickly passes out, apologizing to Dawn for ever meeting her. While John is passed out, Dawn catches a news report about a series of brutal killings on Wonderland Avenue that left four people dead and one in critical condition. As the footage plays, she immediately recognizes the apartment as the same one she and John had visited just a few days ago. Elsewhere at a dive bar, a biker named David Lind, played by Dylan McDermott, watches the same broadcast as a look of horror slowly spreads across his face. Rushing to a payphone, David frantically calls anyone he can think of, desperate to find out the identity of the lone survivor.
AshleyCan you imagine? So he, which I'm sure it's gonna get into in a minute here, his girlfriend was at the house. I cannot imagine seeing this on TV, hearing there's one survivor, and just hoping beyond hope that it is your loved one.
RemiIt is a pretty heartbreaking scene. He is calling literally anyone he can think of, just trying to find any information he can, but nobody has it. This literally just happened, and the names of the victims have not been released, so David is just left to wonder if his girlfriend is even alive. Not long after, the LAPD receive a tip from Lind pointing to a man
Detectives Close In On Eddie Nash
Reminamed Eddie Nash. On their way to speak with Lynde in person, Detective Sam Nico, played by Buffalo Bill's Ted Levine, and his partner, Detective Luis Cruz, played by Frankie G, discuss Nash's notorious rise to power in the city of Los Angeles.
Wonderland (clip)Eddie Nash. His real name is Adel Nasrala. Steps off the plane from Palestine. In 1953, with nothing, he's got four shekels in a bag of dirt. By 1954, he's got a little hot dog card on Hollywood Boulevard, right outside the Seven Seeds restaurant. By 1960, he owns the place. Now he paralles the money, and he gets from the Seven Seeds into two more places. By 1959, he's got like 20, 25 with the licenses. So he's got friends. Yeah, he's got friends. He's the biggest nightclub owner in Hollywood. There's a guy who has been under investigation for arts for the last five years. Yet he still goes out to dinner with the fire conditioner twice a week. Rumor has it that he has got 40 acres in the desert filled with human skulls, except he's removed the pink, so we can't identify. Jesus Christ.
AshleyWhat an effective way to just very quickly give us the background of honestly, this guy that is living the American Dream.
RemiYeah, I thought it was pretty effective the way that they covered his backstory so quickly. It is kind of a dated method they're using. It's a very early 2000s style of quick cuts and really energetic editing and random images being put on the screen, but I think it gets the job done, and I think it does a very good job of quickly explaining this character and why he is not someone to fuck with. After picking up David, the officers bring him down to the station where he begins his confession, claiming the entire incident started over four antique guns.
Wonderland (clip)Four antique guns that Ron Lanius couldn't fence. Ron Lanius was your friend. We were in business together. What kind of business? You know, you guys haven't read me my rights. Nothing I tell you is admissible. We just want to hear your story, Dave, all right? I met Ron Lanius in Chino in 1973. We stayed tight a few months ago. He and Billy came up to Sacramento to see me. Drugs? He and Billy Deverell were partners. Yep. Ran it right out of the house. 3678 Wonderland.
AshleySo I like Dylan McDermott, but he looks ridiculous.
RemiHe is definitely miscast in this film playing a drugged-up biker dude. Yeah, that's just not something that I envision Dylan McDermott as, no matter how good of an actor he is. He just can't pull that off.
AshleyThey should have gotten Aaron Eckhart.
RemiAccording to David, business was so good that they eventually needed an extra hand, so they called him up to come down from Sacramento along with his girlfriend Barbara, played by Natasha Gregson Wagner. We then flash back to the night David and Barbara arrived at Wonderland Avenue, where a lively party
Wonderland House Party And Guns
Remiis already in full swing. Inside the packed apartment, we meet Billy Deverall, played by Tim Blake Nelson, and his wife Joy Miller, played by Janine Garofalo, who greet them with a vial of cocaine and a lit joint. After consuming some substances, David and Barbara make their way to the back of the apartment where they find Ron Lanius, played by Josh Lucas, shirtless, drunk, and clearly on something, twirling a pair of antique pistols. Ron casually mentions that he has two more stashed under the bed and insists that they are valuable, but he just hasn't been able to fence them. Anywhere. And in case anyone's wondering out there, fencing something is when you have a stolen good and you are trying to sell it to someone that knows that it's stolen, basically. Later that night, David meets John Holmes for the first time, as John is in the middle of frantically pitching a drug-fueled scheme to Ron, involving a wealthy Arab businessman who supposedly has large quantities of cash and drugs. By this point, John has already built a reputation for himself in the adult film industry, making him kind of a novelty at these sort of parties, which is really the only reason he's even invited. That, and the fact that he's burned just about every other drug dealer in the city, leaving Ron as one of the only people left in all of Los Angeles still willing to sell to him. Growing increasingly irritated with John's coke-fueled rambling, Ron pulls out one of the antique pistols and, for his own amusement, forces John at gunpoint to expose himself in front of everyone at the party.
AshleyYou think that would be your sign to quickly make your exit after this?
RemiHolmes is pretty determined when he wants something, especially if it involves drugs. He's not gonna give up. Days later, a heroin drought hits Los Angeles, leaving Ron and the others going through withdrawals and scrambling for a way to get their next fix.
Wonderland (clip)LA was dry, no one was holding, but Ronnie was looking for a long shot. He was he was dope sick. So the Arab was Eddie Nash. Yeah, but I didn't realize that till later, but I'll get to that. So Holmes offered to do us a favor. He said he'll take Ronnie's antique guns up to the Arab to trade for as much China and blow as he could get. Sounded like a good plan, but only he's gone eight hours. Finally he comes back in, high as a kite, empty-handed. Of course he has a story. The Arab was like crazy man psycho. He's basing for three days straight. Keeps me prisoner, man. He fucking stole the gun and truth.
AshleyJohn Holmes is not the kind of person you want executing a plan of any kind.
RemiAgreed. He is not very reliable, and as we'll come to see in a bit, he's not a very reliable narrator either. And Ron is enraged by John's bullshit here, so he pulls out his gun and leaps over the table and attacks John like a rabid cheetah, ready to blow his brains out right there in the apartment. He is stopped at the last second by Billy, who gives John two more days to come back with either the money or the guns, or next time he won't hold Ron back. John scatters off like a cockroach and doesn't show up again until two weeks later, when he randomly reappears at another party. The moment Ron spots him, he and Billy immediately escort John to the bedroom, ready to kill him for ripping them off. Everything comes to a screeching halt, however, when John claims that the Arab businessman
The Robbery Plan And Big Score
Remihe knows is sitting on half a million dollars in cash and another half a million dollars in drugs, just waiting to be taken. What John fails to mention is that the Arab businessman he's talking about is actually Eddie Nash. Now, with everyone's attention, John lays out his plan. He'll head over to Eddie Nash's house under the guise of hanging out and buying drugs, then leave the back door unlocked so the others can slip in later and rob the place blind. He even sketches out a map of the house, giving them a clear layout of how to get in and out. After selling the others on his plan and setting things in motion, Susan Leonis, played by Christina Applegate, arrives at the apartment in the days leading up to the robbery, hoping to give her marriage to Ron another try. On the day of the robbery, Ron gives John money to buy dope off of Eddie Nash and leave the kitchen door unlocked on his way out. After three separate attempts over the next few days, John finally gets it done and gives the group the go-ahead after returning at around 4 a.m. David, Ron, and Billy arrive at Eddie Nash's house at around 8 a.m. and enter through the kitchen door just as planned. Once inside, they quickly take control of the house, rounding up everyone at gunpoint when David accidentally shoots and wounds one of Nash's security guards. After restraining the people inside, they ransack the house for cash, drugs, and anything else of value, leaving with their arms full of whatever they can carry. Back at the apartment on Wonderland, the gang starts dividing up the hall, which includes seven kilos of cocaine worth about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, two hundred thousand dollars in cash, another two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in jewelry, an ounce of pure heroin valued at around two hundred thousand dollars, five thousand quaaludes worth roughly a hundred thousand dollars, and of course their antique guns valued at another one hundred thousand dollars. Altogether, the take comes out to about one point two million dollars. Holmes, whose share of the robbery is only an eighth of the total, feels that he's being shortchanged and pushes for a bigger cut, but Ron refuses, reminding him that the entire ordeal had originally stemmed from John's fuck up. Frustrated, Holmes storms out, and while he's gone, the rest of the group stays behind, getting high and laying low. When Holmes returns the following day in the middle of the group's drug binge, things quickly turn sour, leading to another argument, culminating in Ron hurling his VCR through the apartment window in a fit of rage. The following day, David heads back to Sacramento to take care of some business, leaving Barbara behind at the apartment on Wonderland. When David later sees the news report about the murders, he immediately suspects Holmes, knowing that the apartment was gated and only someone Billy knew would have been let inside. Not long after, David goes to the police and confesses to the robbery. Meanwhile, back at the motel, Holmes finally wakes up after passing out for over a day. Dawn presses him about the news reports of multiple murders at the house on Wonderland, but John plays dumb, even after spending the night having nightmares while repeatedly screaming out the word blood in his sleep.
AshleyThat would be concerning now, wouldn't it?
RemiIt is a little suspicious, yeah. Seconds later, the LAPD raid the motel room and the two are taken down to the station for questioning. During her interrogation, Dawn mostly stays quiet as we see flashes of her memories,
Interrogations And Holmes Version
Remishowing that Holmes had been abusive and even pimped her out to Eddie Nash at one point for drug money on Christmas Eve. Afterward, the police drop Dawn off in Pasadena at the home of John's estranged wife, Sharon Holmes, played by Lisa Coudreau. Having shared a bond over the abuse they both suffered at John's hands, Sharon takes Dawn in without hesitation, even though they haven't seen each other in over a year.
AshleySharon is a literal saint.
RemiShe seems so incredibly nice and like she has a good head on her shoulders, at least in the film, that I wonder how she ever ended up with John in the first place. Sharon presses Dawn on why she stayed with John for so long, reminding her she was only 15 years old when their relationship first started. Dawn says she did try to leave, moving up to Oregon and working as a nurse for a couple of months, but John kept calling until she eventually gave in. Sometime later, the police return and tell Sharon and Dawn that John won't talk unless he sees them first. The two are taken downtown to his suite at the Bonaventure Hotel, where he's given a moment alone with Sharon. John tells her that the police are offering him witness protection in exchange for a full confession, and that he's already arranged for Sharon and Dawn to come with him. Dawn agrees to go along with it, but Sharon makes it clear she's not going anywhere with John, despite his aggressive pleas. Later that day, Detective M. C. Ganey, played by Billy Ward, is brought in to question John about the Wonderland murders as part of his immunity deal. We then get John's version of the events, starting with him painting everyone in the apartment on Wonderland as criminals and drug addicts he couldn't stand and never trusted.
AshleySo the detectives are realizing that anyone who could act as a witness is untrustworthy and has a criminal record and drug addiction. And this is gonna prove to be a huge obstacle to them for several years to come.
RemiPlus, both David and John really downplay their parts in these events, which means we may never know the entire true story of what happened at Wonderland. We then flash back to when John first met Eddie Nash on a yacht while snorting some blow with our surprise witness, Paris Hilton, who plays one of the sunbathing women on Eddie's yacht, who's apparently named Barbie, though she is never addressed by name. Eddie ends up being a fan of Holmes' work and invites him to come by the house sometime, which leads to the whole situation with Holmes trying to sell him Ron's antique guns. John insists Eddie wasn't interested in the guns, but says he gave him to Grand as collateral, which explains why he came back to Wonderland without them. From there, John starts shifting the blame, insisting that the robbery was Ron, Billy, and David's idea, while he was against the entire plan from the start. He also says that it was actually David who drew the map after staking out the exterior of Nash's home one night.
AshleyYeah, the guy who has never directly met Ed Nash, never been in his home, just so happens to be the one that drew a detailed map. Come up with a better lie, dude.
RemiSeriously, you cannot have any idea of what the floor plan is inside of a house just by looking at the front exterior. Like, come on. John goes on to claim that he wanted no part of the robbery, but that David threatened him into participating. He also says that it took three separate trips before he finally unlocked the door because he tried to warn Eddie about the robbery each time, but Eddie repeatedly refused to heed his warnings. Fearing for his own safety, John admittingly did unlock the kitchen door eventually, setting into motion the entire drug-fueled robbery. According to John, the gang then started bragging to anyone and everyone that they had just robbed the notorious Eddie Nash, and even hurled their own VCR through a window for no apparent reason during their celebratory drug binge.
AshleyWell, I know what we're doing next time we're excited about something. We just have to buy a VCR first.
RemiWe should go down to Goodwill and just stock up on VCRs, and when the New Year comes, we'll just throw one out of every window. After the VCR incident, John says that he left the house on Wonderland and laid low with Dawn at a Santa Monica motel until calling Eddie Nash a few days later. When pressed on why he would call Eddie Nash so soon after the robbery, John insists that he had to make the call because if he didn't, he'd never be able to show his face in Los Angeles ever again. During their conversation, Eddie never mentions the robbery and acts as if everything is fine, even inviting John to come over and hang out for a while, which John agrees to. When John arrives, everything seems totally copacetic at first, until he is suddenly pistol whipped in the back of the head and thrown through a glass table. According to John, Eddie had learned of his involvement in the robbery after Ron and Billy yelled, John Holmes says hello, on their way out the door. Why would anyone do that? Eddie then threatens to torture and kill everyone John loves, one by one, unless he gives up the people responsible. Bruised, bloodied, and restrained, John eventually breaks and gives Eddie the names and address of the perpetrators on Wonderland Avenue. As a twisted form of retribution, Eddie forces John to return to the house on Wonderland under the guise of a quick visit, leaving the front gate ajar on his way out so his men can gain access. After this final encounter, John says that he left on foot and was not present for the murders, though the film strongly suggests otherwise. Despite John's confession, he refuses to testify against Eddie Nash, costing him the immunity deal he had hoped for. Afterward, the detectives go back over the details of the crime, revealing that everyone in the house had been beaten to death with lead pipes. Detective Sam Nico then lays out his theory of what really happened. Goddamn stroke job.
Wonderland (clip)He gives us nothing. Zero. A fat fucking donut. He doesn't finger Nash. He doesn't even put himself at the sink. The coroner's preliminary report indicates that the murder weapons, plural, were probably strained pipes an inch in diameter. They got their skulls bashed in, whole pieces of bone gone. Three women. And that sack of shit in there set the whole thing up. I've been going there for two, three years, man. Dude cousin brother. He just sells out Nash and lets somebody else do the dirty work. But then he gets screwed on the split. Now he's pissed off. Johnny will stop him. Hey. So he hightails it back over to Nash's house? John, my brother. And rats him out. He had to Nash the Wonderland gang. He served it up on a silver platter. Get back, plain instant.
RemiNico also believes Eddie Nash's men entered the Wonderland residence with John when he was buzzed in, and that John was present during the entire assault, possibly even taking part, but they don't have enough evidence to hold or charge him. We then flash back to Sharon's perspective of the night in question, revealing that John had showed
Sharon And Susan Perspectives Revealed
Remiup to her home, dazed in the dead of night, covered in blood, claiming he needed help and had been in a car accident. At his insistence, Sharon draws him a bath and begins tending to his wounds, only to realize he doesn't have any and that the blood covering his body is not his own.
Wonderland (clip)There's so much blood. I gotta get it off, okay? John, where's the wound? Give me wool a firewall. This isn't your blood, John. Whose blood is this? You have to really grub. John! John! What? What happened, John? Five people are dead, channel. They were murdered. They shouldn't have done that to him, no. They humiliated him to the nest. He had my book, John. He had my black book. He said he was gonna kill you. Oh my god. He did it for us, Jared. He had your name in there. He said he was gonna kill you. What did he do for us? I had to, Jared. I had no killing. Oh, there's so much blood. Ron's head was like a fire working eyes inside his head. It just opened like a great throat. What did you do, John? What did you do, John? I I left before anything happened. I don't understand.
AshleyI love you, babe, but if you came home in this state covered in blood, babbling incoherently about a multi-murder.
RemiYou would call the police. And rightfully so.
AshleyImmediately.
RemiAnd one thing in this scene that I find very interesting is when Holmes is confessing to everything, he has a moment where he stops himself, and you can see his brain processing like shit. I I should not tell her any of this. And his entire demeanor changes, and he switches into saying he left before anything happened and he didn't see anything. Which is clearly bullshit. And Sharon, understandably, demands that he leave immediately, and after a vicious verbal confrontation, he finally does. The last flashback of the film comes from the perspective of the only survivor of the attack, Susan Leonis. She had been asleep beside her husband Ron when the two were attacked in bed by shadowy figures brutally beating them with lead pipes. The crime plays out almost entirely in darkness, allowing us to catch only brief glimpses of each horrific assault, while also showing John being forced at gunpoint to take part in the beatings.
AshleyAnd that last part with showing John forced to participate at gunpoint, Susan does testify in the subsequent trials, which I'll talk about shortly, but she doesn't really remember anything. So showing John forced to participate at gunpoint, that's clearly what John Cox thinks happened. Which I'm not necessarily saying he's wrong.
RemiAnd sidebar, throughout the assault scene, the film briefly inserts several single-frame photographs of the actual victims taken from the 1981 LAPD crime scenes, which is pretty distasteful, if you ask me.
AshleyI was gonna say I don't like that.
RemiNo, me neither. The film ends with John and Dawn driving off into the sunrise, followed by a title card that reads John Holmes and Dawn fled to Florida under assumed names. Holmes was arrested in Florida six months later and stood trial on four counts of murder. He never took the stand and was acquitted of all charges. He died of AIDS in 1988. David Lind served as lead witness in the state's prosecution of John Holmes and Eddie Nash. Both trials ultimately ended in acquittal. Sharon Holmes was never asked to testify against her husband. After John's death, she revealed that John had visited her the morning of the Wonderland murders. She maintains a close relationship with Dawn. Susan Leonis survived with significant injuries. She testified to remembering nothing more than shadows that night. Her whereabouts are unknown. Dawn Schiller escaped with John to Florida. She reported his whereabouts to authorities six months later and never saw him again. She has just finished a book about her experience and lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband and daughter. Eddie Nash was indicted in 2000. He pled guilty to federal racketeering charges, including conspiracy to commit the Wonderland murders on the night of July 1st, 1981, and was sentenced to 37 months in a federal prison. He currently resides in the greater Los Angeles area, a free man. And that was James Cox's Wonderland. Do you have any initial thoughts or reactions, Ashley?
AshleyYeah, that must have
Reactions To Tone And Ending
Ashleybeen the longest pre-credit scene that we have ever discussed in this show. That was a lot of information to just kind of include at the end there.
RemiTotally agree. I thought that the title card had ended multiple times and I was ready to turn the film off, but it just kept going and kept giving more and more information at the end, which I think they could have included some of this in the film as well.
AshleyI think they should have included up until John Holmes's acquittal and then kind of included some of the stuff about Ed Nash at the end. That's why it's difficult because there's a lot more trials that are involved in this saga than even are mentioned on this title card. It would be impossible to portray everything into a movie. You would have to do some sort of mini-series or something. But it's just weird that it just stops with them on the run. That just seems incomplete to me.
RemiI agree. I would have at least continued the story until John is arrested and charged, which would also allow us to see Dawn finally standing up for herself and getting rid of this piece of shit man from her life, which I think would be a better ending than the ambiguous driving off into the horizon thing that we got with two pages of title cards.
AshleyOtherwise, the scenes you showed me, it does feel like a movie that is fully rooted in the 2000s with the clips, the music, the cutaways, but the performances I saw were good. It just makes me really miss Val Kilmer.
RemiHe is wonderful in this film, no pun intended. He does not make you sympathize for this character, but he makes him into a real person that you can understand his addictions and you don't relate to him, but he just comes across as extremely real. And lived in. And I think Kilmer just pulled off this character very, very well. And the film does not show really any of Holmes's backstory or anything that happens after, but I feel like he manifested the entire story of Holmes into his performance brilliantly.
AshleyAnd it sounds like until the director decided to show friggin' actual pictures of the deceased victims, that it was shot pretty tastefully.
RemiI don't think the film is particularly directed well. It came out during that time where like edgy stuff was considered cool. So a lot of the scenes are framed as if this is really cool. They're partying, they're doing drugs, they're having sex in Carrie Fisher's bathroom. And I do not think that is the right angle to be presenting this as, personally speaking.
AshleyYeah, because drugs and partying are what resulted in the brutal deaths of all these people and the destruction of several more people's lives.
RemiExactly. This should not have been depicted as like a drug party, woo-hoo, good time type thing. And up until the murders, it really is presented that way. Like not cool, but probably more glamorous than they should be. But let's get into the release of Wonderland. Wonderland had its world premiere on September 8th, 2003 at the Toronto
Release Problems Marketing Backlash
RemiInternational Film Festival, before receiving a limited theatrical release in the United States on October 3rd, 2003 from Lionsgate Films. According to the filmmakers, Lionsgate struggled with how to market the movie since it combined heavy drug use, references to the adult film industry, and extremely brutal violence. Because of that, the studio opted for a relatively small theatrical rollout rather than a wide release.
AshleyI'm even surprised that this was distributed by Lionsgate. That's a huge production company.
RemiThis is not a film that would be in theaters today. This is something that you would probably see popping up on Netflix or something like that. This wouldn't even be an HBO movie if it was made today. The promotional campaign also leaned into the notoriety surrounding John Holmes, with attendees at the Toronto Premiere being handed novelty rulers measuring 13.5 inches, a not so subtle nod to Holmes's infamous third leg.
AshleyThat's pretty funny.
RemiPeople connected to the real story also had mixed reactions to the film. Don Schiller, who consulted on the movie, praised director James Cox and said the film was well done, but felt it left out a major part of her story by not fully showing the abuse Holmes had inflicted on her, or explaining why she stayed with him. And I agree, Dawn. She later said that omission helped inspire her memoir, The Road Through Wonderland. Others tied to the case were less enthusiastic, arguing the film still took liberties with both the crime and the people involved.
AshleyI mean, you kind of have to. The only person who spoke about anything about what happened that night was John Holmes, and like you said, he is an unreliable narrator, but he's the best we got.
RemiOn Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 34% based on 101 reviews, with a critical consensus that reads, A sordid and pointless movie with some good performances.
AshleyYikes! 34%. Do you think that's warranted? It seems like no from the clips you've showed me.
RemiI think it's a little harsh. I remember liking this film a lot in my younger years, and it is dated with the filming style and everything, but I don't think it's that bad. Like a one-sentence review like that is shitting on this film a bit more than I think needed. But I will say that the director made some distasteful choices in his style of filming, especially the crime scene photographs. The film ultimately struggled at the box office, earning just over $1 million domestically and roughly $2.47 million worldwide against a reported $5.5 million budget. And that was James Cox's Wonderland, Ashley. But it leaves a lot of questions. So I am really curious what your research is gonna tell us about this, Ashley. What is the true story behind Wonderland?
AshleyAlright, well, buckle up. I have the full true story of the Laurel Canyon
True Story John Holmes Origins
Ashleymurders, John Holmes, and the infamous Eddie Nash. John Curtis Estes was born on August 8, 1944, in rural Asheville, Ohio. His parents, Mary and Edgar, had three children before him. But Edgar was not listed on John's birth certificate, likely because of their unstable marriage.
RemiSo who was listed as the father? Was it just left blank?
AshleyYeah, no one was listed. Edgar worked for the railroad and had a severe drinking problem. At times coming home so drunk that he vomited on his kids.
RemiJesus Christ, that's fucking horrendous.
AshleyEdgar and Mary divorced for the third and final time when John was four years old. With no steady income, she applied for welfare and moved the family into a rough neighborhood in Columbus, Ohio, where they lived with another woman and her two kids. When John was seven, Mary married Harold Holmes and moved the family back to rural Ohio. Life was good for the first few years. Harold treated Mary's kids like his own and introduced John to the great outdoors, fishing and frogging. After the birth of John's half brother David, two and a half years later, Harold's behavior changed. He took up drinking and became abusive, with John taking the brunt of his rage. The situation worsened after Harold injured his hand in a harvesting machine accident and stopped working altogether, forcing Mary to take a job on an assembly line. To escape his home life, John dropped out of school in the ninth grade and enlisted in the army when he was just 15 years old.
RemiWere you allowed to enlist in the army at 15 at the time?
AshleyI think it might have been back at the time where you could if you had a parent sign off on it. Either way, 15, way too young. Nonetheless, he spent three years in West Germany in the single corps, the branch responsible for maintaining communications across operations, which seems like a pretty high-stakes job for a 15-year-old.
RemiAgreed. And John Holmes does not seem like the army type from what I know about him.
AshleyWell, after three years, he was honorably discharged in 1963 at age 19. After a brief period in New York, he moved to California, drawn by the sunny weather. Holmes picked up odd jobs as soon as he arrived in the Sunshine State. During a brief stint as an ambulance driver in December 1964, he met Sharon Gedidini, a 20-year-old nurse. They moved in together and married shortly after his 21st birthday. Holmes got a job as a forklift driver at a meat packing warehouse, but had to quit after repeated lung collapses, which doctors attributed to the extreme temperature changes in his work environment.
RemiI didn't even know your lungs could collapse repeatedly. That sounds awful.
AshleyHe had three lung collapses in a seven to ten month period. And the doctor said it was caused from the stress that was put on his lungs from going into the freezer to the hot desert air.
RemiSo, sort of like when you have a glass that has been in hot water and then you fill it with cold water and the glass shatters.
AshleyDuring his recovery, he began frequenting a poker club where he met a porn photographer in the bathroom. This was his introduction into the adult film industry.
RemiI find it ironic that he met this person in the bathroom.
AshleyHolmes initially appeared in nude photography and short stag films, the dominant form of pornography at the time. He met Bill Emerson, who became his lifelong manager and agent, and producer Bob Chin. Holmes' big break came in 1971, a year before films like Deep Throat, Behind the Green Door, and Devil in Miss Jones made pornography more cheek and socially acceptable.
RemiYeah, this was considered the golden era of porn, the 70s decade.
AshleyHolmes gained recognition through a detective-style film series in which he played the character Johnny Wadd.
John Holmes (interview)Welcome straight to the point, Mr. Wadd.
John HolmesJohnny. Call me Johnny. Johnny. I cannot possibly imagine what I could have that you'd be interested in.
RemiI can definitely see how Boogie Knights was influenced by some of these clips. I mean, what you just showed me looks exactly like the Dirk Diggler Brock Landers movie from Boogie Knights. Really poor quality and a kind of a sleazy guy sitting there pretending to be suave, but just kind of coming across as gross.
AshleyThere are clear connections between Boogie Knights and John Holmes that are really fun to notice, more so John Holmes before he gets insanely addicted to drugs, as he does rather quickly. Since involvement in the porn industry was still a crime, Holmes was arrested for pimping and pandering in 1972.
RemiIt was a crime to be in the pornography business back then? A felony. I had no idea.
AshleyHolmes agreed to act as a paid informant to avoid prison. Over the years, he became close with his handler, disclosing the where's, when, and who's of the adult film industry while subsequently becoming a household name. Holmes's marriage to Sharon deteriorated as his career progressed. Although she opposed his involvement in pornography, she remained in the relationship long after their intimacy ended. She supported their household, covering all living expenses, while Holmes kept his earnings separate and the marriage concealed from his colleagues.
RemiSharon is a goddamn saint. This poor woman, she deserved much better than this piece of shit.
AshleyAnd I did watch a documentary about John Holmes, not exhausted, the one that was made when he was still alive. This one was made later. There's a link in the show notes if you're interested. But Sharon is interviewed a lot. And when she's talking about this point in her life, she's like, I just really loved him and cared for him, not as a husband anymore, but as a friend. And I just wanted the best for him and wasn't willing to kick him out on the streets. So she put up with a lot and got very little, if anything, in return. In 1974, she started managing a 10-unit apartment complex owned by the pediatrician she worked for. They lived there rent-free, with John occasionally helping with small repairs or landscaping. In 1976, Holmes met Don Schiller, a 15-year-old girl who recently moved to California with her dad and two siblings. In this interview, she describes how their relationship initially unfolded.
Wonderland (clip)Yeah,
Grooming Abuse And Dawn Schiller
Wonderland (clip)he would ask questions like, you know, how old are you? And then, you know, act like he was so shocked that I was 15, because I was 15 and he was 32. And he was already living this life of um, see, you know, this porn life at night. And in the daytime, he was a um uh the manager of the apartment complex. And, you know, I was a 15-year-old kid. I didn't know anything about porn at the time. This was 1976, mind you. We didn't have the exposure to the internet and all the pornography that probably younger than 15 years old today um are have access to. So I was pretty naive, very naive, as a matter of fact. And we were poor. He started supplying food, he started bringing, you know, bringing odd jobs in. He started um we became dependent on him for going to the store, going to the, you know, to um you know, anywhere else where we need anything, going to the laundromat, wherever we had to go. Um he also put himself in charge of giving us tours around Los Angeles, and so he he thought, you know, and he started to act like this protector, kind of carer of this family that was, you know, had a disabled veteran father and these kids who didn't have any food. But he was also the marijuana guy, too, you know.
RemiThis is all very obvious grooming that he was doing to her at 15. The complimenting her, saying, Oh, you don't look 15, the inserting himself into her life. He is giving her drugs. This is very, very classic groomer shit that he's pulling.
AshleyIt's totally grooming 101. And he even like incorporated her family. Like, as she said at the end of the clip, her dad was a disabled veteran, and they were trying to start this new life for themselves and weren't able to do so, so they became dependent on this man who was buying them things they needed to survive.
RemiYeah, he had a lot of power over her and her family without them even necessarily realizing it.
AshleyThe second Dawn turned 16, Holmes's relationship with her turned sexual, and he even moved her into the spare bedroom of the apartment he shared with his wife. Sharon wasn't initially aware of the nature of their relationship and embraced the teen until she learned the truth about their intimacy and drug use. After she kicked them out in 1980, Holmes and Don bounced from hotel to hotel. Holmes reached the peak of his career in the late 1970s. He became known as the Porn King and was highly sought after because of his large member, with, as you pointed out, several people saying it was 13 and a half inches long at full mast.
RemiJust so everyone knows, we looked up a picture for research purposes before recording this episode, and it is just We believe the accounts, is what we will say. Yeah.
AshleyWell, and the only thing larger than his schlong were his ego and his tall tails. Like the fact that he claimed to have had sex with 14,000 women.
Wonderland (clip)One would tend to wonder how you stimulate your thoughts to make love to another one.
John HolmesUh a happy gardener is one with dirty fingernails, and a happy cook is a fat cook. I I never get tired of what I do because I'm a sex stand. I'm really enjoying what I'm doing. I'm very lusty.
AshleyAll right, Remy. How about we do some math right now?
RemiIt's not my strongest subject, but yeah, I think it's necessary in this case. How many years was Holmes actively in the pornography industry?
AshleySo that clip is from the 1981 documentary Exhausted, and he started around 1971. So by that point, he would have been in the adult film industry for a decade.
RemiSo according to the numbers that I've been crunching here, that averages out to 1400 women per year, which is also 116.7 women per month, or 26.9 women per week, or 3.84 women per day. So roughly that equates to one new partner every six hours and 15 minutes, every day, for 10 years straight.
AshleyAnd that wasn't the only thing he exaggerated. He lied about everything. He lied about his education, his family of origin, how he got into the porn industry to begin with. Nothing this guy said in interviews could be believed. Around the same time, Holmes was gaining infamy, he developed a serious drug addiction. He actually didn't start drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana until the early 1970s,
Addiction Crime And Hollywood Decay
Ashleyput off by the experiences he had with his dad and stepdad. But just a few years after that, he transitioned to cocaine. Before long, he was freebasing and blowing everything he made on the drug. To support his addiction, he started selling drugs for the mob, stole baggage from carousels at LAX, robbed houses, and used Sharon's credit card to buy items he could resell, racking up thousands of dollars in debt. He became increasingly volatile, especially towards dawn. He forced her into prostitution and once backhanded her so hard that her tooth busted through her lip. His drug use also affected his work, causing performance issues and erratic behavior on set, including staying in the bathroom using for hours at a time.
Wonderland (clip)What about your bathroom fetish?
John HolmesWhat about it?
Wonderland (clip)Yeah. Um why do you stay in the bathroom for five hours at a time?
John HolmesI don't know, it's a shitty habit. I don't have a habit of doing that. Sometimes I hide in other places so that they can't find me. But usually the bathroom is the only place with a lock on the door.
RemiSo he would just be on set in the bathroom alone, freebasing cocaine for five hours?
AshleyYeah, I don't know how he ended up still getting work after this. That's insane.
RemiWhat the hell was he doing in there? Literally just smoking drugs and staring at the wall?
AshleyAnd probably doing the shit we saw in Boogie Nights, talking to himself in the mirror, hyping him up.
RemiI do think the scenes of Dirk Diggler's cocaine addiction mirror this similarly.
AshleyThrough his drug activity, Holmes became closely associated with the Wonderland Gang and Eddie
Eddie Nash And Wonderland Gang Collide
AshleyNash. The Wonderland Gang was a group of drug dealers and users operating out of a house on Wonderland Avenue. They were known for their heavy drug use, wild parties, and home invasion robberies. The group was large and fluid, but the primary members were Ronald Launis, David Lind, and Tracy McCourt. Eddie Nash, by contrast, was a wealthy and well-connected nightclub owner and drug dealer with ties to organized crime and local officials. Born in Palestine, his family owned several hotels before the creation of Israel in 1948. After spending some time in Palestinian refugee camps, he immigrated to the United States in the early 1950s with just $7 in his pocket. He opened a hot dog stand on Hollywood Boulevard before getting into the drug business. By the mid-1970s, he was one of the biggest drug dealers in the entire state. He owned dozens of nightclubs targeting every type of demographic, multiple real estate properties, and other assets worth over $30 million. His drug addiction was probably the only thing he had in common with Holmes and the Wonderland gang. He was missing part of his sinus cavity, had a lung removed, and had a steel plate in his head. By the late 1970s, he was constantly high, rarely left the house, and frequently asked guests if they wanted to play baseball in the wee hours of the morning.
RemiAlfred Molina's character in Boogie Nights has to be based off of Eddie Nash. There are so many similarities here with the just coked up, really frantic, wild behavior like that. Could you imagine meeting someone walking into their house and finding this person greeting you?
AshleyThis is what I mentioned at the top of the episode when I said there were similarities between the Wonderland true story and boogie nights. This one stuck out in my head so hard. They are acting so erratically, and they ask if I want to play baseball. Not the drinking game baseball, but the actual sport.
RemiYeah, this guy seems like he was definitely a loose canon.
AshleyWell, Holmes met Nash through a mutual friend in 1978 and developed a fast friendship, helped along by Nash's love of pornography. He knew exactly who Johnny Wadd was when they first met. Holmes found himself in a Of a precarious situation in June 1981, he owed Nash drug money and was under pressure from the Wonderland crew for a botched drug delivery. Caught between the two, he developed a plan. Nash trusted Holmes, even referring to him as a brother at times. Holmes decided to betray this trust by orchestrating a robbery. When Nash was away, he invited the Wonderland gang into Nash's San Fernando Valley home and showed them around, making sure to point out the location of a concealed floor safe. Around midnight on June 29, 1981, Holmes left Wonderland Avenue with about $400 and headed to Nash's under the pretense of buying drugs. He spent the next few hours using his stash and left around dawn, taking extra care to leave the back door unlocked. He returned to Wonderland Avenue to execute the second part of the plan, but everyone in the house was either passed out or too high to function. Around 8 30 in the morning, after Holmes confirmed that the back door was still unlocked, Ron Launis, David Lind, and Billy Deverell, disguised as police officers and carrying handcuffs, entered Nash's home and carried out the robbery. They restrained Nash and his bodyguard, Gregory Dillis, and forced Nash to open his safe. The robbers took off with a significant haul. Antique rifles, eight pounds of cocaine, 5,000 quaaludes, a kilo of heroin, $10,000 in cash, and roughly $100,000 in jewelry. So I will point out some of our money estimates do differ. I bet you it's has been adjusted either in the movie or in the book I read for inflation. So essentially, I do think that what was depicted as them taking away in the movie is basically what they went off with in real life. As they fled, items fell from the shower curtain they were using to carry stolen goods, and their getaway car, driven by Tracy McCourt, was nearly out of gas. They coasted downhill and made it back to Wonderland Avenue on fumes.
RemiWait a minute, so they didn't even bring like bags to carry out stuff? They just dumped it in a shower curtain and then hopped in their car that had no gas in it? This was not thought out at all.
AshleyBack at Wonderland Avenue, Holmes was waiting with Joy Miller, Billy Deverell's girlfriend and renter of the house, Ron Lannis's wife Susan, and David Lynn's girlfriend, Barbara Richardson. The loot was divvied up, with Holmes, despite his role in setting up the robbery, receiving only $3,000. He was upset but knew there was nothing he could do about it.
RemiThey call it asshole tax in the film.
AshleyThe next day, Holmes made another decision he would come to regret. He went to Eddie Nashes seeking another score. Maybe he thought returning to the scene of the crime would remove suspicion from him, or perhaps his addiction clouded his judgment.
RemiIt was just his addiction. This guy wanted to get high again, and he was probably desperate and called the wrong person.
AshleySince very few people knew the location of the hidden floor safe, Nash had no doubt about Holmes's involvement.
RemiThe floor safe is highlighted in the film, but not as a factor in how Nash realized that Holmes was involved.
AshleyAccording to Holmes, Gregory Dillis, Nash's bodyguard, tied him to a chair and beat him while Nash threatened to kill him and his family if he didn't reveal who was responsible. There is another witness who later corroborates this, but more on that later. Holmes sang like a canary and agreed to help orchestrate the retaliation. He returned to the Wonderland house and spent the evening doing what he did best: drugs. Everyone I mentioned earlier was there, except for David Lynd, who left for Sacramento in the afternoon for a court hearing.
RemiIn the film, it is depicted as Holmes getting buzzed in and coming inside for like two seconds, doing a bunch of their cocaine that's laid out, and then just leaving. Like he's literally in there for maybe 15 seconds and then runs out and leaves the front gate unlocked.
AshleyOh no, Homeboy hung out for the entire night. By the wee hours of July 1st,
The Night Of The Laurel Canyon Murders
Ashley1981, everyone, except for Holmes, was sleeping, nodding off, and completely defenseless. Around 4 a.m., a small group of men arrived at the property armed with metal pipes. Holmes had already disengaged the electronic gate and let them inside when they lightly knocked on the door.
RemiSo Holmes was still in the apartment waiting to let the men in.
AshleyThe attackers ransacked the house, likely searching for the stolen cash and valuables taken from Eddie Nash's home during the robbery two days earlier. At the same time, they beat each resident one by one nearly beyond recognition. In the hours that followed, multiple people entered the house, taking whatever they could get their hands on. No one called the police. At least one person later admitted to stepping over Susan Laonis as she lay clinging to life. She groaned, but the intruder did nothing, assuming she would die anyway.
RemiIn the film, it depicts John Holmes returning to the residence after the crime to steal some drugs.
AshleyOkay, so he did not go back, but they said that there was probably five, six, seven groups of people that came and just took whatever they could find. And mind you, Susan is still alive at this point. Everyone saw her, everyone saw the bodies, and no one did anything.
RemiIt was a drug house, and these people were stealing things like cocaine and heroin, and I'm sure that was probably more important to them at the time than reporting any of this. They probably figured someone else would do it sooner or later. As fucked up as that is.
AshleyFine, but the person that admitted to stepping over Susan and hearing her groan, call the cops anonymously from a payphone. Like, come on. Immediately after the murders, Holmes went to Sharon's house despite not speaking to her in months. He was frazzled and covered in blood. He eventually told her he was forced to watch multiple killings done in retaliation, stating he had no other choice but to do so. It was them or me. He took a bath, slept for a few hours, and returned to the motel where Don was staying. And this is Don's recollection of the hours that followed.
Dawn SchillerAnd then I watched the Wonderland murders on the news, and I thought, oh my gosh, because I knew the house and I watched them pull the bodies out of the house on the news, and he was sleeping in the bed and he was having this dream screaming about the blood.
AshleyBack at Wonderland Avenue, a group of neighbors were in the process of moving around 4 p.m. So this is nearly 12 hours after the intruders entered the home.
RemiThe neighbors didn't hear anything? They didn't hear any loud noises or screaming or anything.
AshleyThere wasn't screaming. These people were asleep. One of the neighbors said they kind of heard like some groaning at one point, but thought nothing of it because this was a party house. I mean, if you're sleeping and someone comes and starts bashing your head in with a metal pipe, you're not gonna let out a lot of noise. It's gonna be pretty quiet.
RemiI only ask because there is a part in the film where one of the detectives mentions that the neighbor heard like one loud bang sound, but that's it.
AshleySo around four o'clock, two or three men leaving the residence told the movers, Hey, there's dead bodies in there. The police were finally called and encountered one of the most brutal crime scene in the city's history. Remarkably, Susan Launis was still alive. She was transported to Cedar Sinai Hospital but wasn't expected to survive. Investigators processed the scene using the forensic methods available at the time, mostly fingerprinting since DNA analysis wasn't available. The scene was also video recorded and later played in court, marking the first time in California history that a videotaped murder scene was used as evidence.
RemiAnd I have seen some of this footage, and it is not for the faint of heart.
AshleyDetectives Tom Lang and Robert Sousa were assigned to the case. Numerous individuals came forward claiming to have information about the Laurel Canyon
Investigation Evidence And Holmes Trial
Ashleymurders, though many were involved in criminal activity themselves and appeared motivated by the possibility of a leniency with their own legal issues. One of the most significant witnesses was David Lind. He contacted detectives seeking information about the condition of his girlfriend Barbara Richardson, mistakenly believing she was the sole survivor, reported on the news. To avenge her death, he cooperated throughout the duration of the investigation. Through witness statements, investigators learned about Eddie Nash, who was actually already being investigated by the LA Narcotics Bureau for Drug Trafficking. They invited the investigators along for the first of what would be three search warrants on July 10, 1981. During the operation, bodyguard Greg Dillis grabbed a gun and fired at deputies. They shot back and remarkably no one was injured. Dillis was later convicted of assault with a deadly weapon and sentenced to three years in prison. As the murder investigation continued, multiple witness accounts, including getaway driver Tracy McCourt, established John Holmes's connection to Nash and the Wonderland group, as well as his role in setting up that first robbery. On July 12th, 1981, Holmes was located at a motel in the San Fernando Valley and taken to a hotel under police guard. Don and Sharon both joined him. Holmes gave limited useful information. He acknowledged involvement in the Nash robbery and said he was coerced into leaving the Wonderland house unlocked, but refused to identify who was responsible for the murders. After five days, he was released, made a pit stop at Nash's before going on the run, taking Don with him.
RemiWait, what did he do at Nash's place?
AshleyI'm assuming bought some more drugs, probably informed Nash of what he had just been asked at the hotel for the past five days.
RemiJesus, cocaine is a hell of a drug.
AshleyDon and Holmes made their way to Miami, where Don had been raised, and stayed at a rundown motel. His violence toward her resumed. After he beat her outside of the motel in front of several witnesses, the manager intervened. She told Dawn to gather her belongings and connected her with another woman who would let her stay for a while if she helped with childcare. This story is filled with women just trying to do the right thing to help out other women.
RemiSeriously, there's a lot of really nasty people in this story, but there is also a lot of good-hearted people who genuinely seem like they're trying to help, especially in Dawn's situation.
AshleyDuring the search for homes, detectives got a hold of Dawn's brother Wayne, who agreed to travel to Miami to help find the duo. They quickly located her on November 30th, 1981, and she told them everything she knew about his whereabouts. By that time, it had been about two weeks since they had spoken. On December 4th, 1981, after nearly five months on the run, Holmes was arrested and extradited to California. Upon his arrest, he denied any involvement in the murders and claimed Nash was responsible. At times, he alluded to having let the attackers into the Wonderland House, but these statements were not formally recorded and no notes were taken. When pressed directly, he refused to elaborate, stating that he feared for his safety and that of his family. In January 1982, he was arraigned and formally charged with four counts of murder and one count of attempted murder. John Holmes's murder trial began in early July 1982 and lasted approximately three weeks. The prosecution relied heavily on testimony from David Lind and Susan Launess, who remembered little beyond seeing dark figures holding metal objects before experiencing severe pain. Under cross-examination, she acknowledged that she couldn't identify Holmes as one of the attackers. Physical evidence included Holmes's partial prom print on a headboard above the body of Ron Launis.
RemiThis is mentioned in the film.
AshleyThe prosecution argued that this indicated Holmes had been holding the bed frame while participating in the attack on Ron. However, the defense countered that Holmes had been in the house frequently, making the presence of his prince expected, and noted that this partial print contained no blood, which based on how gruesome the attack was, you would expect it to have some. After the prosecution rested, so did the defense, without calling any witnesses. In closing arguments, the defense argued that Holmes had no intent to commit murder and only acted in duress to preserve his own life. They argued that Holmes had been forced at gunpoint to allow the attackers into the house and argued that Eddie Nash was responsible for orchestrating the killings. They also suggested that Holmes was only being prosecuted because he refused to implicate Nash directly. After just one day of deliberations, the jury acquitted him on all charges. Following his acquittal, Holmes attempted to contact his wife, expressing a desire to reconcile and leave the pornography industry, but Sharon refused. The two never spoke again and formally divorced on october nineteenth, nineteen eighty four. Shortly after his failed reconciliation attempt, he was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury about his knowledge of the suspects involved in the murders. He refused and was jailed for contempt of court, with the judge ordering that he remain in custody until he agreed to testify. While incarcerated, Holmes received a slew of letters, including one from Eddie Nash referring to him as a quote, good friend, and encouraging him to quote, tell the truth.
RemiSo I think he's kind of defending his own choices by supporting Holmes here.
AshleyAround the same time, an article about Holmes written by Barbara Wilkins was published in Hustler. In it, he avoided admitting his role in setting up the Nash robbery and instead placed blame on members of the Wonderland group, claiming he was the one that made them promise to not harm anyone. What a saint. By November 1982, after growing tired of sitting in jail for months, Holmes agreed to testify before the grand jury. He again admitted to setting up the robbery at Nash's house, but denied witnessing the murders or hearing anyone, including Nash, order or talk about them. After complying, he was released from custody, moved in with hustler writer Barbara Wilkins, and returned to the adult film industry. He partnered with his manager, Bill Emerson, to form a production company that allowed him to write, direct, and perform in his own projects. Between 1985 and 1988, he appeared in seven of the roughly 20 films produced under this arrangement. Surprisingly, he was even granted permission to use his well-known Johnny Wadd character in one of his final films. And let's listen to a promo that he gave during this time. Bill Emerson wasn't the only person trying to help Holmes reinvent himself. In January 1983, he met Lori Rhodes on a film set. In similar fashion to his prior relationships, they moved in together after just two months. While Lori claimed he was a loving and supportive partner, Bill described their relationship in much darker terms. From his view, Holmes was only with Lori because of the reputation she had for doing anything and everything in the bedroom, no matter how degrading. Despite his best efforts, Holmes never came close to the fame he once achieved. By the 1980s, the adult film industry had shifted significantly. The rise of home video led to lower production budgets and a saturated market. Holmes, who had once earned around $1,000 to $3,000 per film, was now lucky to take home $300 for his brief appearances. During this time, Holmes and Emerson were reportedly among the first in the industry to advocate for HIV testing among performers. To demonstrate their commitment, both men were tested and agreed to continue doing so regularly every few months. Holmes received negative HIV tests until February 1986. His doctor estimated that he could easily live for 15 to 20 years if he changed his lifestyle, but Holmes viewed the diagnosis as a death sentence, as I'm sure nearly everyone did at the time. He slid back into drug and alcohol use and didn't publicly disclose his diagnosis. As he grew sicker, he started telling people he had colon cancer and surgery to remove most of his large intestine. Lori stuck by his side, and the two married in Vegas in 1987. As Holmes grew more erratic, his relationship with Emerson deteriorated. In the summer of 1987, Holmes traveled to Italy to film what would be his final projects, including the rise and fall of the Roman Empress.
RemiWait, but he had AIDS at this time, and he knew it, right?
AshleyHe sure did, and he did not disclose it to anyone. Per Lori, he rationalized this by saying, Well, if they don't have it already, they're gonna get it at some point.
RemiFuck this piece of shit.
AshleyYeah, it's diabolical. In November 1987, Holmes checked into a VA hospital for treatment. In February 1988, detectives learned he was seriously ill and visited him in hopes of obtaining additional information about the murders. He had nothing useful to add. Which again is a fucked up thing. Like you're on your deathbed, dude. Just tell the truth.
RemiScumbag to the bitter end.
AshleyHe died on March 13th, 1988, at the age of 43 from complications related to AIDS. His ashes were scattered at sea by his mom, half-brother David, and wife Lori. And now, it's time to travel back in time a bit. About the time of Holmes's murder trial, to talk about our friend, Mr.
Eddie Nash Trials RICO And Bribery
AshleyEddie Nash. In November 1981, Eddie Nash and several others were named in a federal indictment that included charges of arson for hire and racketeering under the RICO statute. Prosecutors alleged that Nash orchestrated a scheme in which businesses in Southern California. California and Vegas were purchased, insured, and intentionally burned to collect insurance payouts. Nash's arson and fraud trial began in May 1982, alongside three codefendants tied to the same operation. Interestingly, one of Nash's attorneys was president of the LA City Fire Commission. Seems like a clear conflict of interest for an arson investigation. On June 11th, 1982, Nash's three codefendants were convicted on all charges, but Nash himself was acquitted.
RemiThat's a little suspicious.
AshleyThe rumor was Nash had a lot of political ties. I don't know if that had anything to do with the outcome of the investigation, but it definitely had something to do with who his attorney was. Later that year, on November 6, 1982, Nash was convicted of seven counts of illegal possession of a controlled substance. These charges stemmed from evidence obtained through multiple search warrants executed between July 1981 and June 1982. While awaiting sentencing, the DA received a call, indicating that Nash wanted to discuss the Wonderland murders. During that meeting, he claimed that he was told David Lind was responsible for the killings, including that of his own girlfriend, I guess, but surprisingly, Nash didn't have any evidence to prove it. A few weeks later, he was given the maximum sentence of eight years in prison.
RemiEight years, that's all?
AshleyWell, wait, it gets even worse. The Wonderland investigation continued into the summer of 1983, with the detectives conducting additional interviews that introduced new potential suspects. However, many of these proved to be false leads made by people who seemed to fear Nash's influence. They were basically pointing the finger at two main people, David Lynn being one of them, the other being like a scorned ex-wife of someone associated with Nash. So it was very clear that these were not credible at all. And with that, the case grew cold. On August 30th, 1984, Nash's attorney filed a motion for early release, citing the need for specialized nasal surgery that could not be adequately performed in prison.
RemiBecause of the massive amount of cocaine he had snorted in his life, his nasal cavity had collapsed.
AshleyA physician supported this claim, and Nash was actually re-sentenced to four years, meaning he was eligible for release after just two years. And surprise, surprise, he never got said nasal surgery.
RemiSo his sentence was lowered because he did too much cocaine before he was imprisoned, that they were gonna release him to get that fixed?
AshleyAbout four years later, in February 1988, the Wonderland case was reopened in part due to statements made by Scott Thorsen, a man who had known Nash for years and relied on him to support his drug habit. This is when detectives went to try to talk to Holmes on his deathbed.
RemiAnd he still gave them nada.
AshleyPer Thorsen's account, he was at Nash's home when Holmes arrived that afternoon before the murders. He recalled seeing Dillis beat Holmes, and after being taken to another room, he said he heard Nash yelling that everyone involved needed to die. On September 7, 1988, Nash and Dillis were arrested and charged in connection with the murders. Bail was denied. Nash was held in solitary confinement, with Dillis being placed in general population, a decision everyone would later regret. Both men were arraigned on February 6, 1989 on charges of murder and attempted murder. Nash changed his attorneys multiple times before his case went to trial. At one point, he was even represented by Leslie Abramson, the defense attorney, to the Menendez brothers. The trial began on March 20th, 1989, which is just a month and some change after he was actually charged, which is just crazy how quickly the legal system used to move. This is unheard of of something getting to trial that quickly now. So Nash and Dillis were tried at the same time, but with separate juries. So there was going to be one jury deciding if Nash was guilty or not guilty, and another deciding if Dillis was guilty or not guilty. When evidence applied to both defendants, both juries would be present to hear it. But when evidence only applied to one, then only that jury would hear it. The other would have to leave.
RemiThis seems extremely unusual. Is this sort of thing done often?
AshleyI don't think so. I've heard of co-defendants being tried at the same time, but I'm not really sure if it always involves these separate jury things. I think most of the time defense attorneys try to get the cases separated because of this reason, evidence of guilt for one person runs the risk of automatically being viewed as evidence of guilt for another. During the trial, the prosecution called several witnesses, many of whom had criminal backgrounds or pending legal charges of their own at the time, which made it easy for the defense to challenge their credibility. Smartly, they did not do so with Susan Launess, whose recollection of what she went through remained limited. On May 10th, 1989, the case against Nash went to the jury. Five days later, the judge was informed that one juror, Shantae Taylor, remember this name, refused to continue deliberating because she believed that the key prosecution witnesses were not credible and testified in exchange for favorable treatment in their own cases. A mistrial was declared with the jury split 11 to 1 in favor of guilty. On May 29, 1989, a mistrial was also declared in the case against Dillis, with the jury divided 10 to 2 in favor of conviction. The prosecution presented largely the same case at retrial. However, the defense introduced an alternative theory, suggesting that another man named Paul Kelly may have been responsible. They argued that Kelly had a personal motive tied to conflicts with Ron Launis and prior disputes involving drug transactions. Kelly, who was in custody at the time, was brought into court but invoked his Fifth Amendment right against incrimination and did not testify. This was what the defense was hoping for all along. And it worked. On January 17, 1991, Eddie Nash and Gregory Dillis were acquitted of all charges. Dillis died from liver disease on January 16, 1997. In July 1999, Eddie Nash was again indicted on federal charges under the RICO statute. The indictment included 16 counts involving money laundering, conspiracy to defraud the government, and conspiracy to distribute and possess controlled substances. Shockingly, there were also charges tied to the Wonderland murders. One racketeering count alleged Nash's involvement in conspiracy to aid and abet the murders, while another accused him of bribing a juror during the earlier California murder trial, and another of attempting to influence a witness in the investigation. The charge involving bribing a juror was related to accusations from juror Shaunte Taylor. You see, the city of LA made a mistake by housing Gregory Dillis in general population while he was awaiting his murder trial. While there, he met a gang member closely associated with Taylor's brother. After learning Taylor was selected for Nash's jury, $70,000 was funneled to her family. When disputes arose between the inmate who orchestrated the payments, Taylor's brother was shot in a drive-by. She agreed to testify in exchange for immunity and witness protection for her and her family. What are the chances that he would just meet some random gangbanger in prison who was closely associated with a juror?
RemiI was thinking the exact same thing.
AshleyIt really is just the worst of luck. And if you remember, Nash, it was a mistrial, 11 to 1, with Taylor being the only person they would have gotten a conviction for him if it weren't for her. Well, anyway, Nash was arrested on May 19, 2000, and released on a $1.5 million bail, which was revoked in January 2001 after he violated release terms. On September 10th, 2001, he pled guilty to all counts. At a press conference, his attorney characterized Nash's role in the underlying events at Wonderland as quote, having sent some people to get his property back. That's it. End quote. Nash was ordered to pay a quarter of a million dollars in fines and sentenced to 37 months in prison. So three years. Which included credit for time served. He was released by 2003 again on medical grounds related to ongoing nasal issues.
RemiWait, so he got released again complaining about the nose thing? This guy got away with everything. Is he alive today and still free, or did he pass away?
AshleySo Eddie Nash lived the rest of his life in the San Fernando Valley and died from natural causes on August 9th, 2014. And that is the true story of James Cox's Wonderland.
RemiOkay, I think that we can both agree that Eddie Nash did orchestrate the murders on Wonderland Avenue and clearly bribed his way or threatened his way or did whatever he had to do and got away with it, basically. He was a crime boss in LA, like a Tony Soprano type, and these guys ripped him off in a really haphazard way, and then he just had his men take care of them. I mean, is there any doubt about that?
AshleyNo, not at all. And that one juror that Shantae Taylor, she is really the only reason that he did not go away for life for murder.
RemiHe got extremely lucky on that one. I mean, like we said, what are the odds of that? Being in prison and happening upon someone who has a connection to a juror? That seems incredibly unlikely. For whatever reason, luck seemed to be on Eddie Nash's side throughout all of this. And I can't believe he was still alive living in Los Angeles while I was there as well.
AshleyAnd even with all of those drug case convictions, the fact that he served at most two years for each conviction is wild. So this guy ended up spending less than five years behind bars despite two separate federal convictions and two trials for the murder, the brutal murder of four people.
RemiHe had a lot of money and a lot of powerful connections.
AshleySo it's clear that Eddie Nash is the one that orchestrated this. The more interesting
Did Holmes Participate In Murders
Ashleyquestion is what do you think about Holmes' involvement? I have my theory, but I want to hear yours first.
RemiAfter hearing the real version of the events, you know, comparing it to the film, which pretty blatantly points out that Holmes was involved, this one is a bit more murky. I think after hearing the history of violence that Holmes perpetrated on the women in his life, the random outbursts and anger and drug-fueled rage that he had inside him, I definitely think that he participated. He stayed there, waited till everyone passed out, and I think he let them in. Whether or not he was threatened into doing it or did it voluntarily, I do think that he participated in some capacity in the actual murders.
AshleyInteresting. So my take is slightly different. I do think that basically the story as I told it about him being threatened to give up the robbers and then being threatened to participate in the retaliation was accurate because yes, Holmes was violent against the women in his life. Although I didn't see anything that he was violent towards his first wife, it was mostly Don and then subsequently Lori, depending on who you ask.
RemiBut further into his drug addiction, he seemed to get worse.
AshleyBut when it comes to confronting men in his life, I think Holmes was a, for a lack of a better word, a big old pussy. I don't think he stood up to anyone. And I think he asserted his dominance on 15 and 16-year-old girls, and that's about it.
RemiHe asserted his dominance on people who were helpless and couldn't defend themselves. I think someone who is fast asleep in their bed qualifies.
AshleyThat is true. I don't know if he participated in any of the murders. If he did, I do think he was instructed to do so, possibly by one of the intruders saying, bash this person's head in, or we're gonna bash your head in. I mean, and at that point, what choice do you really have?
RemiSo what do you make of the showing up at Sharon's house in the middle of the night covered in blood? Do you think that was from him being forced to participate or just being a bystander?
AshleyOkay, based on that, you're right.
RemiIt would suggest that he participated in some capacity.
AshleyBut I don't think he did so happily or even on his own accord. I do think that he was forced to do it. And even if that is the case, it is no excuse for his behavior after. He could have easily sought some sort of retribution by coming clean and fully participating. And instead, he didn't. He didn't even choose to cooperate when he was acquitted and could no longer be held accountable for whatever his involvement was. After he was acquitted, he should have sat down with police and been like, well, because double jeopardy exists, I'll tell you everything. He couldn't have been charged with anything. And maybe they could have charged him with other things like assault and stuff like that. But at that point, I think they would have been so happy to have some sort of potentially reliable person cooperating that he wouldn't have been charged with anything else. Even when he was laying on his deathbed, he could have told the truth and he didn't.
RemiHolmes was a total irredeemable piece of shit up until the very, very end of his life. He used everyone, he did not care about anybody else in his life but himself. He did not give a shit about Dawn. He did not give a shit about Sharon. He definitely did not give a shit about Lori. He was a awful, awful human being. He got AIDS and knowingly spread it. He did so many horrific things throughout his life, and he was just such a horrendous excuse for a human being. One of the things that I wanted to mention was I had felt that the film Wonderland kind of focusing solely on the Wonderland aspect of Holmes' life, and it would be an interesting story to hear the entire thing, but it would be incredibly difficult to make a film where this person is supposed to be your main character. He is awful.
AshleyWho do you think could do it? If they did a John Holmes biopic, who would you cast?
RemiFirst off, I just want to say if there was a feature-length film with Kilmer as Holmes, that would have been phenomenal. He would have been brilliant in that.
AshleyI mean, it could still happen. Maybe that will be the next AI-generated movie from his estate.
RemiI really, really, really hope not. But if the film was made today, I would go with Evan Peters as John Holmes. I think he did a brilliant job in the Dahmer miniseries, and I think he is someone that could pull off this role very well. I don't think you could necessarily characterize Holmes as charming, but I think Evan Peters would be able to put an interesting spin on this awful character.
AshleyEvan Peters isn't bad, but I think I have one better. Jacob Alordi.
RemiOoh, he would be very good, John Holmes. He has played pretty nasty characters in a lot of different things. We just saw him in Worthering Heights, and he was amazing.
AshleyI mean, I could gush on him for days and days and days, but let's skip that. I'll do it in my mind, and let's move on to our objection of the week.
Objection of the WeekYour Honor, I object! And why is that, Mr. Reed? Because it's devastating to my case!
Objections Verdict And Accuracy Grade
Objection of the WeekOverrule. Good call!
AshleyI'll kick us off with this one, Remy. This was hard. I think I only had one for the first half of your portion, and it was about the detectives' names being changed, which I do want to talk about. No one's name was changed in this entire thing, except the main detectives, which I do not understand, but whatever. The one I landed on, because we have kind of decided that name changes is kind of cheap, is that the day after Nash's robbery, from what I could tell, Holmes didn't call Eddie Nash and have a pleasant little chat with him on the phone. He just showed up to buy drugs.
RemiIt was depicted as, I think, a few days after the robbery, not the very next day.
AshleyWell, that's an even bigger objection then, because it was the next day.
RemiThat's not a bad one, but I think that's a little bit more major than mine is. My objection this week is that in the film, when they entered Nash's home, they never identified themselves as police officers or pretended to be cops at any point. However, in the real story that you told, that was something that they did on more than one occasion that was kind of part of their MO in robbing places, which they'd probably go in, say they were cops, and it would catch everyone off guard, and these drug dealers probably were apprehensive about attacking police officers, and by the time they realized they weren't cops, they would be restrained. So yeah, that was completely omitted from the film, and I think it should have been included, and there was really no reason not to. So that is my objection this week.
AshleyI'm gonna give it to you because that one is smaller, and it actually would have made the movie better.
RemiMy other one is that Holmes actually hung out with them for several hours before the murders occurred. While in the film it's depicted as him literally going in and out for maybe 35 seconds. But I definitely think the whole pretending to be cops thing was a more minor detail that they could have included.
AshleyYeah, that depiction in the movie is kind of actually one of the bigger discrepancies from the real story, which leads us to our verdict.
Objection of the WeekAt the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will deliver a verdict based on the film's accuracy. If the film is an honest portrayal of the events, then it will earn a not guilty verdict. If the adaptation is mostly factual, but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars.
RemiI will start the verdict portion of our podcast since you started the objection side. I am going to give Wonderland a not guilty verdict. I think that it really did keep close to a lot of the facts. There was details here and there that were changed, but like you said, Ashley, when I was listening for objections while you were telling your story, I didn't really come up with many. They kept to most of the facts, and the things that they changed were pretty minor. So I think the filming style is dated, and I think some of the choices made are distasteful, but I do think that they did a very accurate job of depicting this story. So I'm gonna give Wonderland a not guilty. What do you say, Ashley?
AshleyI agree. I think this rivals in the top five of like easily not guilty verdicts that we've ever given.
RemiSurprisingly, right?
AshleyThere was so few changes. One of the biggest ones that I thought of is the timeline of Holmes' confession to his involvement of the robbery. In the movie, it's kind of depicted that he lays everything out when he was in that hotel for five days. When in reality, it sounds like what he told investigators in the movie was a culmination of the very little information they gleaned after several interviews with him, including after he was arrested from being on the run. But I don't fault the director for including that at all. It actually helped, I think, with the story he was trying to give. But other than that, like I had two objections. The one I said and the fact that the detectives' names were changed, which is so minuscule in the grand scheme of things. I was shocked of how accurate this 36% movie on Rotten Tomatoes was to the real life events. It is wild.
RemiOne note that I would definitely have changed is that I wouldn't have as directly shown Holmes' involvement. I think it should have been left a bit more ambiguous as it was in reality. Nobody knows if he actually took part in the murders. But the film pretty emphatically shows you that he did.
AshleyAnd I think that's because the director, I don't know what movies he did before, if anything, but he was probably a young director. And it seems like that part of the film was him interjecting his views of what happened.
RemiI completely agree. If you're a filmmaker, I think it's only natural for you to insert your own beliefs into the film that you're making. And I do think that he participated as depicted in the film, but the exact circumstances of what happened, we will never know.
AshleyWell, that is a really great place to close the book on Wonderland and get into what we're gonna be talking about in two weeks from now.
RemiExactly. Two weeks from now, we will be discussing Channing Tatum again. We
Next Film Roof Man And Wrap
Remidiscussed him in the past with the film Foxcatcher, but we will be discussing a very different film next time about a roof and a man. Roof Man is the film that we will be talking about. It is the true story of a bank robber who hides out in a Toys R Us for several months while he is on the run or escaped from prison. We did watch this film a few years ago, but I don't really remember the details.
AshleyWe didn't watch it a few years ago. We watched it a few months ago. This is a rather new film. It's with Channing Tatum and Kirsten Dunst.
RemiAnd it is a comedy film. We try to fit one comedy film in every season, and this one is a refreshing change of pace from the film we discussed this week. So I look forward to learning about the true story. I don't know a ton about the real guy behind this. I'm assuming this is gonna be maybe a burny situation where some stuff is changed here and there, but I don't know, we will see.
AshleyAnd usually when we are watching movies that I have seen, you always ask, Ashley, have you seen it? And I was like, Yes, but I remember nothing. This one I actually do remember stuff about. We both really enjoyed this movie, and we looked at each other and were like, we have to cover this and we have to learn about the new case because the movie was really enjoyable. So I'm excited to talk about it in depth.
RemiYeah, we bumped another film so that we could chat about Roofman early because yeah, like you said, we were both big fans of the film. And that is next time on the show. 14 days from now, two weeks, I don't know how many hours, but we will be here, and we are going to be talking about Roofman and all of the details behind it.
AshleyStay tuned for a little clip of the trailer at the end. Also, review, rate, subscribe, and until then.
Roofman (trailer)Court is adjourned. We all like going back in time and imagining how things could have gone differently. Like, what if I made different choices? Would I have ended up here?
Wonderland (clip)It's been six months and still no leads on the whereabouts of the escaped convict known as the roof man.
Roofman (trailer)I was never very good at life. Good morning, team. Oh no, no, don't be scared. Kind of like I was not good at hurting people. Dwayne, get your coat. I don't have one. Are you serious? Here's I was good at seeing things.
Wonderland (clip)Details systems and routines. Find the safe place to hide for a few months.
Objection of the WeekHe's a very smart individual, super intelligent.
Wonderland (clip)Just the man I want to see.
Objection of the WeekYou like peanut menu, huh?
Wonderland (clip)We're missing a lot, isn't it, Nanny Wanna?
Objection of the WeekI just thought they gotta be hiding somewhere.
