Criminal Adaptations
Criminal Adaptations is a True Crime/Movie Review Podcast discussing some of your favorite films, and the true crime stories that inspired them. With hosts Remi, who spent over a decade working in the film and television industry, and Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator. They discuss a new movie each week and compare the film to the real life events that the film is based on.
Criminal Adaptations
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It
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Michael Chaves’s The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It (2021) tells the chilling story of a murder allegedly connected to demonic possession – but how much of it actually happened? In this episode, we separate fact from fiction as we dive into the real-life case of Arne Cheyenne Johnson, the first in US history to attempt a legal defense based on demonic possession. We explore the infamous possession of 11-year-old David Glatzel, the involvement of renowned paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren, and the shocking killing that inspired the film. Join us as we uncover the real story behind one of the most controversial cases in paranormal history and compare it to the blockbuster film that brought it back into the spotlight.
Primary Sources:
- New York Times (1981)
- Brittle, Gerald. The Devil In Connecticut. Graymalkin Media (1983).
- The Devil on Trial (2023)
- Time (2023)
- Fox News (2023)
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Theme: DARKNESS (feat. EdKara) by Ghost148
Welcome And The Horror Pick
AshleyWelcome to Criminal Adaptations, where we take a look at some of your favorite movies and the true crime stories that inspired them. I'm Ashley, a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator in the state of Oregon.
RemiAnd I'm Remy. I spent over a decade working in the film and television industry in Los Angeles, California.
Demonic EntityAnd welcome back, everyone, to Criminal Adaptations. Remy, what are we talking about this week?
RemiUh, Ashley, are you feeling okay? You sound a little different this week.
AshleyGosh, sorry. I don't know what got into me. Anyway, Remy, what are we talking about today?
RemiThis week, we will be discussing the conjuring. The devil made me do it. This is our horror episode that we try to fit in at least one per season. And this is a story about Ed and Lorraine Warren, a husband and wife paranormal investigation team who built an entire career investigating alleged hauntings, possessions, and demonic activity. Are you familiar with the Warrens at all, Ashley?
AshleyPretty much everything I know about the Warrens has come from the Conjuring series. I did know before this series came out. I'd heard their names before because I'm pretty sure it was the Amityville horror case that really set them on the map. And there's been several movies made of that before the Conjuring.
RemiI had heard of them loosely before the Conjuring films, but to me, Ed and Lorraine have always just been like the equivalent of paranormal psychics and reality TV ghost hunters. Like they are good storytellers, but not people that I ever found credible in any way.
AshleyYeah, I'm a skeptical person to begin with. So when someone tells me that they've investigated like 10,000 hauntings and possessions, my alarm bells are going off.
RemiAgreed. Personally, I've never believed in ghosts, and after more than 40 years on this planet, I have yet to encounter a single paranormal experience or story that has convinced me otherwise. What about you, Ashley? Have you ever experienced anything otherworldly or paranormal?
AshleyI am in the same camp as you. Can't say that I have.
RemiWell, there are a lot of people out there who apparently have experienced things. James Wan, the creator of The Conjuring Universe, has gone on record and said he has had paranormal experiences himself. And James Wan's films are pretty much ridiculous, dumb, big-budget B-movies that, personally speaking, are way too silly for me to ever take seriously, but they are usually a lot of fun. He did Saw, Insidious, The Conjuring films, of course, Furious Seven, Aquaman, and of course Malignant. Do you remember when we saw that film, Ashley?
AshleyI will never forget that wild reveal.
RemiWe will not spoil it for anyone, but it is unexpected, and it does turn into a John Wick style action film with a unique twist to it.
AshleyI do remember the first Insidious being pretty creepy.
RemiI used to get Insidious and the Conjuring mixed up all the time because they both star Patrick Wilson. In fact, James Juan has worked with Patrick Wilson at least seven times as a director. He's been in Insidious, The Conjuring, Aquaman. He even had a cameo in Furious Seven, and plus all of the sequels to those movies as well. That's his guy. And I feel like the Conjuring franchise is their biggest film achievement. I mean, these movies have grossed over $2 billion worldwide and had multiple sequels and spin-offs and a very diehard fanbase. Do you like the Conjuring movies or any of their spin-offs like Annabelle or The Nun?
AshleyI've never seen any of the spin-offs. I think I liked the first and second Conjuring. This is the second one, right? This is the third. Okay. I think I liked the first and second ones only. I do remember seeing this one. I don't think I liked it very much, and then I have not seen the last one, the last writes.
RemiWell, James Wan did not direct this one. He did direct the first two, so maybe you're more a fan of his style of filmmaking. I've never really been a fan of the conjuring movies, mostly because I've always found them kind of corny and more reliant on jump scares than genuinely great storytelling. But I digress.
AshleyWell, before anybody starts speaking in tongues or crab walking across the ceiling, let's talk about how The
How The Movie Got Made
AshleyDevil Made Me Do It came together behind the scenes.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItNow you you just stay right there, okay? Don't move. I think I heard someone.
RemiThe Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It, is a 2021 American supernatural horror film directed by Michael Chavez, with a screenplay by David Leslie Johnson McGoldrick, based on a story by McGoldrick and James Wan. The film is the sequel to The Conjuring from 2013 and The Conjuring 2 from 2016, making it the third main installment in the series and the seventh installment overall in The Conjuring Universe, which also include Annabelle, Annabelle Creation, Annabelle Comes Home, and The Nun.
AshleyOh my god, I did not realize there were three Annabelle movies. That is just ridiculous.
RemiA lot of these came out when I was working for a company that owned a lot of movie theaters across Los Angeles, so I could see movies for free. So I have seen almost all of these films in theaters, and I don't think I liked a single one of them. Patrick Wilson and Vera Fermiga return as paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren, along with Rory O'Connor as Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, Sarah Catherine Hook in her feature film debut, and Julian Hilliard. James Wan and Peter Saffron also return as producers, keeping the film connected to the larger creative team behind the franchise. The movie is based on The Devil in Connecticut, a book written by Gerald Brittle about the 1981 murder trial of Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, which you read for this episode, am I correct, Ashley?
AshleyRegretfully, we will go in depth into this trash bag of a book later.
RemiBack in 2016, James Wan was already talking about the possibility of additional conjuring films, saying that there could be many more conjuring movies because the Warrens have so many stories. And that's just what they are stories. At the same time, Juan wasn't sure if he'd be able to direct a third film because he was busy with other projects. Speaking to Collider, he said, Assuming we are lucky enough to have a third chapter, there are other filmmakers that I would love to sort of continue on the conjuring world, if we are lucky enough. Juan also said that if a third movie happened, he'd like to see it take place in the 1980s. One absurd idea that Juan had seriously considered involved lycanthropy, aka werewolfism. Juan said, Maybe we can go and do it like a classic American werewolf in London style. The Warren set against the backdrop of the Hound of the Baskerville, which sounds so absurd, and I'm glad they did not introduce werewolves into this franchise. Do the Warrens have a story where they fight a werewolf?
AshleyI am 99.9% positive absolutely not. They just do demons and ghosts.
RemiNot werewolves or vampires or mummies. Oh my. In June 2017, Warner Brothers officially announced that a third Conjuring film was in development, with the Conjuring 2 co-writer David Leslie Johnson McGoldrick hired to write the screenplay alongside Juan. In October 2018, it was officially announced that James Juan would not be directing the Conjuring II. At the time, Juan was coming off the massive production of Aquaman and had several other projects in development, and wanted to focus on making Malignant, an original horror project he was inexplicably passionate about. Instead, the Conjuring III would be directed by Michael Chavez, who had recently directed The Curse of La La Rona. Had you seen La La Rona?
AshleyI have not. I vaguely remember trailers for it years ago, but never saw it.
RemiI haven't seen it either, but I think it's like a Mexican ghost story film. Juan said he had been impressed by Chavez while working with him on The Curse of La La Rona, explaining Chavez's ability to bring emotion to a story and his understanding of mood and scares make him a perfect fit to direct. In December 2018, it was confirmed that Patrick Wilson and Vera Fermiga would once again reprise their roles as Ed and Lorraine Warren, after previously starring in The Conjuring and The Conjuring 2. Vera Fermiga, who plays Lorraine Warren, described the experience of returning to play the character as coming back to the family. She further joked, I love working with this guy, referencing her on-screen husband and off-screen pal, Patrick Wilson. Everybody likes Patrick.
AshleyYeah, that's good they get along. It would be miserable if they didn't.
RemiFirmiga said that after some strange experiences during the filming of the first and second conjuring films, the cast and crew gathered together before filming began on the third for a prayer of intent, hoping to keep the set safe, positive, and free from whatever spooky nonsense they had experienced previously.
Vera FarmigaYou know, we start off now because the spooky odd, creepy, dark things happened on the first one. And um, and so we started doing this thing where we gathered everyone around and we started off with uh with with uh sort of consecrating the space and the workplace and with a prayer of intent and sort of pushing all that stuff away and just wanting it to be um a healthy, happy, go-lucky, safe uh experience.
RemiYou know, I used to really think that Vera Fermiga had a promising career ahead of her, but after watching this and Orphan and a few other films she's been in recently, I think I'm gonna have to withdraw that statement.
AshleyIt's not too late, she can come back from this.
RemiHopefully, she's a good actress, but she's always doing movies like this. Filming kicked off on June 3rd, 2019, in Atlanta, Georgia. The real Arnie Cheyenne Johnson and Debbie Glatzel reportedly visited the set and even met with members of the cast and filmmakers during the production.
AshleyI did find in my research that they were involved in some way.
RemiI didn't find any information saying that they really had any input into anything, but they did meet the filmmakers and actors. During reshoots, director Michael Chavez decided to remove a demonic antagonist who had been played by Davis Osborne. The character was originally supposed to be working alongside the occultist, but Chavez felt the character just wasn't quite connecting. Instead, Osborne was given a different role as an eerie infirmary patient. Now, Ashley, are you ready to get the holy water, grab the Bible, and strap in for Michael Chavez's The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It? Mark's door.
Plot Recap And Biggest Set Pieces
RemiInside, the house is in ruins, with furniture strewn wildly about and vicious claw marks lining the walls, as we hear the faint sound of Bible verses being recited coming from the other room. On July 18th, 1981, Ed and Lorraine Warren were called to document the exorcism of David Glatzel. He was eight years old. In the living room sit Ed and Lorraine Warren, played by Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson, surrounded by members of the Glatzel family. Little David, played by Julian Hilliard, is curled up beside his mother in a cold sweat. After a long evening, they decide to call it a night and put David back to bed. Not long after, Father Gordon, played by Steve Coulter, arrives to perform the exorcism. Upstairs, David is awoken from his sleep by a violent pounding emanating from the walls of his room. Terrified, David hops out of bed, runs into the bathroom, and locks the door, but it soon begins rattling relentlessly as some unseen force tries to get in. Panicked and not knowing what else to do, David hops into the bathtub and pulls the shower curtain closed. Suddenly, the pounding stops.
AshleyIt's like a little kid who gets scared at night and just pulls the covers over their head, like maybe if I can't see it that'll make it go away.
RemiYeah, little kid logic. If I can't see it, then it can't see me, then it can't get to me. As David sits huddled in fear, the shower head suddenly turns on, bathing him in blood and causing him to scream. David's parents rush into the room, followed closely behind by Father Gordon and the Warrens. As David's father struggles to open the bathroom door, we see that the frame is lined with claw marks identical to the ones we saw downstairs. After kicking in the door, David comes running out of the shadows, screaming. He stabs his father in the leg with a shard of glass before Ed restrains the boy and demands that Father Gordon begin the exorcism immediately. David is brought downstairs, kicking, screaming, and clawing at the walls before finally being restrained on the dining room table as Father Gordon begins the ritual by reciting aloud from the Bible.
AshleyNo buildup at all. No backstory.
RemiYou gotta start strong. You gotta have some pretty intense scares right off the get-go in this type of movie, otherwise the audience will lose interest because the story and the dialogue isn't very good. Anyway, at one point while David's thrashing about, the kid grabs Lorraine's hand, and she has some sort of vision or something. So Father Gordon just keeps on chanting Bible verses and spritzing David with holy water every so often, until suddenly David's skin begins to boil, he starts emitting steam from his mouth, and all the cabinets fly open, launching dinner plates everywhere and knocking Father Gordon out in the process.
AshleyMan, the mom is gonna have a hell of a cleanup job tomorrow.
RemiWith Father Gordon incapacitated, Ed grabs his Bible and takes the lead on the exorcism. As David thrashes demonically, a fierce wind fills the room while Ed continues shouting Bible verses. Then, out of nowhere, David's back arches up like a pop tent and twists around like a pretzel. Sidebar, according to director Michael Chavez, the scene where David's body goes all double-jointed chiropractic patient was largely achieved practically by a 12-year-old contortionist named Emerald Gordon Wolfe.
AshleyWow, 12 years old?
RemiYeah, the kid has to be like a circusole performer or something. It's very impressive the crazy positions he can maneuver his body into. It does look like CGI.
AshleyYeah, that's more impressive than what we learned about Jennifer Carpenter and her doing all that weird shit with her body in the exorcism of Emily Rose.
RemiIt seems like for a lot of these possession movies, they try and hire some sort of contortionist or body performer to come in and do the possession scenes so they can keep it more realistic looking. Because there's a lot of people out there that have double-jointed spines and can move their arms in crazy directions, and yeah, a lot of normal people out there can do these types of things. It is remarkable, I cannot do any of it. But yeah, this is something that just exists in the world. Back at the Exorcism, David telepathically blasts all of his family members against the wall, then stands up on the table like a wacky waving, inflatable arm flailing tube man, and launches himself directly at Ed, punching him in the chest and causing a literal heart attack. Like seriously, the demon even yells at him, I'm gonna give you a heart attack or something like that. Lorraine tries to help, but she gets another vision which fucks her up all over again so she's useless. That's when David's sister's boyfriend Arnie, played by Rory O'Connor, comes to the rescue. After prying the boy off of Ed, Arnie addresses the demon directly, offering himself up in exchange for David. Not one to pass up a great offer, the demon accepts, immediately drops David, and hops into Arnie, with Ed, who is still in the midst of having a heart attack, being the only witness.
AshleyLorraine didn't yell at him for doing that.
RemiNo, like I said, Lorraine was all messed up from having a vision flashback thing, so she didn't know what was going on. She literally, like, a flash entered her mind and she fell to the floor like, whoa, it's so overwhelming.
AshleyIn real life, they were both like, What did you do?
RemiWell, that is definitely what Ed is thinking, but Ed kinda has his own problem going on right now. But after that, everything sort of just dies down right away, and the family is happy that David seems to be alright again. Lorraine still has to get Ed to the hospital to deal with those pesky heart palpitations, and Arnie's acting kind of weird now sitting in the corner, but whatever, moving on. A title card then reads The exorcism of eight-year-old David Glatzel was meant to end the months of torment. But for Arnie Johnson, it was just the beginning. The tragic events that followed made nationwide headlines, and led Ed and Lorraine Warren to the most sinister discovery of their entire career. Based on a true story.
AshleyThey even go with bass, not inspired by I know, right?
RemiThey went all in on this one. And spoiler alert, not much of this is true. Or so you think. At the hospital, Ed's condition has stabilized after his severe heart attack, but he'll need a stint implanted into one of his arteries. Meanwhile, back at the house, Arnie hears strange voices in his sleep until he's finally awoken by his girlfriend Debbie, played by Sarah Catherine Hook. Sidebar, tucked inside a cinder block in Arnie's bedroom, is a figure that resembles the nun from the other films in the Conjuring Universe. Did you see the nun, Ashley?
AshleyI did not.
RemiWell, I'll give you my review really quick.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItIt stinks.
RemiArnie proposes leaving Brookfield now that David's whole demon possession thing has been resolved, but Debbie reminds him that they don't have any money, and she is also reluctant to move away from her family. We also learn that Arnie and Debbie live and work at the Brookfield boarding kennels, with Debbie basically acting as the glue holding the entire operation together. Later that day, the family readies their backyard for a cookout and And Arnie is sent inside to retrieve the meat. Once alone in the house, Arnie sees a cereal box fall from a shelf and goes to clean up the mess, but is startled when a large rat comes scurrying out of the box and right across his foot. Arnie follows the rat into the other room, but becomes distracted by an odd mold hole in the wall, and stops to investigate it.
AshleyMold rats, they need to get out of this place. Disgusting.
RemiI know, right? This place is falling apart. And the part where he comes across the mold hole is one of those scenes where he's just like getting really close to the mold hole and putting his eye in there, and you're just waiting for something to come out of the mold hole and grab him. But instead, the moment he turns around, he comes face to face with a gaunt old woman dressed entirely in black, who grabs his head, screams in his face, and then vanishes without a trace. This ghost really likes to grab people by the head and scream directly in their face. It's sort of its thing. Back at the hospital, Lorraine hasn't left her husband's side, and we learn that she and Ed met 30 years ago when they were both just seventeen years old and still in high school.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItAfterwards, we went out for ice cream. And we stood under the gazebo until it stopped.
AshleyAnd the rain didn't let up for six hours. So we were underneath that gazebo for quite a while. Fun fact, they actually did meet as teenagers at a movie theater.
RemiDid they hang out under a gazebo in the rain for several hours and not even share their first kiss?
AshleyI did not go that in depth into the Warrens. I basically just wanted an overview that includes one sentence about their life, maybe two sentences about their life before they became paranormal investigators.
RemiWell, I left this part out, but at the end of the movie, Ed buys or builds Lorraine the gazebo for their backyard.
AshleyI roll. He's trying to be Ryan Gossling in the notebook, and it ain't ever gonna happen, Ed.
RemiDid Ryan Gosling build a gazebo for Rachel McAdams in the notebook?
AshleyNot a gazebo, just a huge entire house.
RemiThat is definitely a bit more impressive than a gazebo. Though I will say Owen Wilson's gazebo in Meet the Parents is exceptional. Elsewhere, Arnie is at his landscaping job and up in a tree doing some trimming, but he's having a little trouble getting his chainsaw started. The old woman in black briefly appears in a nearby window, and the chainsaw suddenly revs to life, nearly decapitating Arnie before crashing to the ground and giving the other workers quite the fright.
AshleyI don't mention this in my part, but apparently there was one point when Arnie did have a on the job scare. It didn't involve a chainsaw. He basically fell out of the tree, but then his pulley caught him after he dropped 70 feet or something.
RemiWow, 70 feet? That's a miracle he even survived that.
AshleyWell, I think the pulley grabbed him before he hit the ground, but still that would cause quite a recoil.
RemiArnie leaves work early that day and returns home, only to find their landlord Bruno, played by Ronnie Jean Blevins, belligerent and drunk. Concurrently, Ed finally wakes up from surgery at the hospital and warns Lorraine about Arnie's possession. Cutting back to the Brookfield Kennel, Arnie is inside fixing Bruno's stereo with a pocket knife, while Bruno jams out to blondie records like Stone Cold Steve Austin, chugging beers, making a mess, and generally being a rowdy nuisance to everyone around him.
AshleyThe amount of beer this guy was just spilling everywhere, there's no way his house isn't just covered in a sticky slime.
RemiYeah, he slams that beer on the table and foam just comes fizzing right out of it all over the place. But on an unrelated note, I love that blondie song.
AshleyYeah, I can't blame the man for wanting to get his groove on.
RemiIt was also the main theme song of the first Zoolander movie, if I'm not mistaken too. It's a banger. Bruno begins drunkenly dancing with Debbie against her will, but what Arnie sees is a tall demonic figure with sharp teeth and claws getting ready to attack her. Running to her defense, Arnie throws Bruno off of Debbie as the music crescendos, then ushers her into the kennel, where the dogs are in an uproar. Arnie slips and falls just as the music cuts out, and the room goes dark. Out of the shadows, a demonic human or creature scuttles towards him. Arnie whips out his trusty pocket knife and begins stabbing the creature repeatedly trying to defend himself. Not long after, a police officer out on patrol happens upon Arnie walking like a zombie along the side of the road. The officer pulls over to question him, only to discover that Arnie is covered in blood and claiming that he thinks he hurt someone. News of Bruno's murder soon hits the media, with sources reporting that he had been stabbed twenty two times in broad daylight. Bruno's death is additionally the first murder in the one hundred and ninety three year history of the town of Brookfield. Ed and Lorraine visit Arnie in jail and attempt to provoke the evil spirit inside him with religious symbols and by reciting scripture. Like seriously, they're just putting a Bible in front of him and reciting different verses. That's their way of trying to provoke the demon. When the demon does not reveal itself, Ed and Lorraine conclude that Arnie is not currently possessed, but may have been at the time of the murder. So they agree to help.
AshleyYeah, that makes sense. I mean, they weren't there or anything. I can see how they came to that conclusion.
RemiWe then cut to Ed and Lorraine speaking with Arnie's attorney, Merrill, played by Ashley LeCante Campbell, to pitch the idea of a demonic possession defense strategy.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItHe was found covered in the victim's blood. The murder weapon belongs to him, and it's got his fingerprints all over it. Nobody's disputing any of that. Arnie knows that he's going to prison. All we're saying is that there were mitigating circumstances. Mitigating circumstances? Look, I don't think he should get the death sentence either. But I am not going before a grand jury and saying he was possessed by demons. It's never been done. Yes, it has. It's been done twice in England. The Michael Taylor case was just a few hours ago. Let me rephrase that. It's never been done successfully. Then let us help you. Ed and I have proven the existence of the demonic hundreds of times. You've proven it to the church. This is a court of law. The standards of evidence are completely different. The court accepts the existence of God every time a witness swears to tell the truth. I think it's about time they accept the existence of the devil. How are you going to convince a jury if you can't even convince me? I'll tell you what. You come over to our house for dinner. We'll show you the evidence we've collected over the years. Introduce you to Annabelle. If you're not convinced, we'll butt out. All right. Show me what you got.
AshleyThis is a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see how it works out for them.
RemiDanbury Superior Court, September 19, 1981. Merrill sits next to her client, Arnie, in court, looking rattled, clearly having been convinced of the supernatural during her field trip to the Warrens. Because they've proven ghosts exist hundreds of times, apparently. Like it's that easy. Come on over to our house, we'll show you. She saw Annabelle. Annabelle doesn't move. It's not like they showed her Chucky. Arnie is charged with first degree murder, with the defense entering a plea of not guilty by reason of demonic possession, while the prosecution seeks the death penalty. Ed and Lorraine continue their search for proof of Arnie's possession, but are baffled as to why a demon would simply stop possessing someone out of nowhere.
AshleyBecause the demon doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison?
RemiYou know, that's a pretty good point. If I was a demon, I would hop on out of that body if we got locked up. I'm sure there's other options out there. Some kid on a Ouija board. Back at home, the Warrens listened to the audio recording they made while interviewing the Glatzel family about what they had experienced. We then fade into a flashback from five months earlier, to the first day the Glatzel family moved into their new home, back when everything was hunky dory. Little David curiously explores the humble abode on his own and soon discovers a waterbed in one of the bedrooms, much to his delight. David hops onto the bed and plops himself down, enjoying the relaxing waves beneath him until he notices that something is inside the waterbed. Yeah, a lot of mold. Suddenly, a ghoulish hand rips through the mattress, grabbing David as water sprays everywhere. After several heart pounding moments, David is released and falls to the floor as the chaos subsides and his family comes rushing into the room.
AshleyAnd what you did not see in that scene is David probably being beat for busting that waterbed and flooding that room.
RemiYeah, there's no way that his parents bought the excuse of a zombie arm came out of the mattress and attacked me. They're gonna be like, no, you jumped on the bed and you popped it. You are in trouble, David. Returning to the present, Ed and Lorraine head back to the Glatzel home to investigate the room where the initial incident took place. There, they discover a patch of disgusting black mold hidden beneath a carpet where the waterbed once sat.
AshleyYeah, that's because it spilled water everywhere. Of course there's gonna be mold.
RemiSince Ed's heart attack has left him weak and feeble, Lorraine ventures into the creepy, rat-infested, cobweb covered crawl space beneath the house to inspect the area directly below the mold for further clues. While searching, she uncovers a strange sculpture made of bones concealed beneath a white sheet. Lorraine later explains that the object is a witch's totem used by Satanists in their rituals, leading the Warrens to conclude that David had actually been cursed rather than possessed, and that on the night of the exorcism the curse was passed on to Arnie. Totally makes sense, right? Realizing that they may be slightly out of their area of expertise, the Warrens travel to the remote home of retired Father Castner, played by John Noble, to assist in their investigation. Castner is a peculiar old man who offers the Warrens omelets and has chicken shit on his hands. Looking over pictures of the witch's totem on his front porch, Castner soon reveals that he has seen something like this before.
Vera FarmigaYou've seen it before?
Demonic EntityNo. But I've seen ones like it. This is sophisticated, very nasty piece of work.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItWhat I don't understand is is is why. David, the little boy, was possessed. He didn't do anything wrong. Why would someone target this family? Why? The why is irrelevant. The why is counter to everything that the Satanist stands for. His sole aim is chaos. His nectar's despair.
Vera FarmigaBut someone had to put it under their house. So what does this tell you about the person who made it?
AshleyI do not like how they are blending demons, Satanists, witches, and curses. It's just kind of like pick a lane.
RemiWell, it was almost werewolves, so consider us lucky, I guess? Maggie agrees. Castner escorts the Warrens down into his padlocked basement, revealing a strange storage room filled with satanic oddities and books collected during Father Castner's past escapades.
AshleyThe Warren should feel right at home. He has a little shop horrors just like they do.
RemiSeriously, but for whatever reason, they are pretty creeped out by this room. You'd think they'd be used to this sort of thing. I mean they do have their own version of this, like you said. Castner then tells the story of the trial of the disciples of Ram. You familiar with the disciples of Ram, Ashley?
AshleyCan't say that I am.
RemiWell, after the disciples were all found guilty, the lead prosecutor's wife gave birth six weeks early to a child whose heart was outside of its body. Three months later, she committed suicide by laying her neck across a railroad track. Elsewhere, Arnie is still adjusting to life behind bars, mopping floors late at night in dimly lit infirmaries, while getting jump scared by his annoying little demon buddy every so often. Do they normally have people mop the floors at night in mental hospitals or jail?
AshleyNo, it would definitely be a daytime job.
RemiAnd even if it was at night, you would have the lights on, right? Oh well. Ed and Lorraine soon receive a tip that sends them to Danvers, Massachusetts, to speak with a homicide detective about two girls named Katie Lincoln and Jessica Strong, who both went missing about four months earlier. Katie's body was recently found stabbed twenty two times, with still no trace of Jessica. When police searched Jessica's home back in May, they discovered a strange totem similar to the one found beneath the Glatzel home. Lorraine offers to help find Jessica using her clairvoyance in exchange for access to the case files. And after passing a routine clairvoyancy test, the detective agrees to the warren's terms. First stop, the murder site in the middle of the woods where Katie's body was found, where Lorraine has a vision of the night in question.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItHey. Um, I got you something. They were selling them at the May Festival this year. Your parents were dragging you up there for that every year since I was six.
Vera FarmigaIt's dumb, but I thought this was cool. It reminded me of the ones we made in high school.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItWill you help me put it on? Sure.
RemiDespite clearly being BFFs, Jessica stabs Katie 22 times the moment she slips the bracelet on. After killing her friend, Jessica runs through the woods and jumps off a cliff like wild E Coyote. Since Lorraine has been mimicking Jessica's movement during her vision, she nearly tumbles off the cliff as well, but Ed pulls her back to safety just in the nick of time. Jessica's body is found at the bottom of the cliff later that night, exactly as Lorraine envisioned.
AshleyMan, with the power to just solve missing persons' cases this quickly, Lorraine really should be employed by the FBI.
RemiSeriously, she has like X-Men level superpowers here. Like the scene where she has to prove to the detective that she has this power. He brings in a bunch of different weapons and mentions a specific case and says which one of these was the murder weapon, and she picks it out in literally like two and a half seconds. Imagine how helpful that would be. Back in prison, the demon's antagonistic ways are really starting to get to Arnie. But luckily, a priest pal of the Warrens makes a special delivery of holy water to Arnie's cell to help ward off any evil spirits. Lorraine has also deduced that the demon was summoned here against its will and is pretty pissed about it.
The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do ItThis demon. And I saw something. I didn't know what it was then. But I think that I was connected to the person who's responsible for this. And that body that they found. If it's Jessica, if it's really her, then that connection could still be open.
AshleyWell, thank God for Lorraine, Warren. What would this family, or frankly, anyone in this town do without her?
RemiRight? Like literally, she touched someone who was being possessed by someone else, and then Lorraine could see through the eyes of the other person who was possessing the person she was touching? This is confusing. But luckily Lorraine has a plan to break the curse and free the demon. Cut to Ed and Lorraine breaking into a closed funeral home where they find Jessica's soggy bloated corpse down in the morgue. Since Lorraine's vision powers work way better when she actually touches something, sort of like Jean Grey, she grabs the dead girl's hand to see if they may have missed anything. Lorraine finds herself transported to a dark, damp, subterranean lair, with an altar surrounded by twelve lit black candles arranged in a circle. An unseen woman cracks an egg into a DD goblet centered on a pentagram, then lights the yolk while uttering some sort of spell in an attempt to complete the curse.
AshleyWhat a waste of a perfectly good egg. Those are expensive nowadays.
RemiThis could just be an alternative way to cook an egg. You put it in a bowl and then light the bowl on fire? Maybe it makes a quiche. The woman then drinks the contents of the goblet and seemingly gains control over Arnie while he's in jail, causing him to crush the bottle of holy water in his hand and use a shard of glass to cut his wrists. Wanting to save Arnie, Lorraine calls out, extinguishing the candles and ending the possession. Which also has me like, wait, hold up, she can actually like interact with the things when she's going on these vision quests? Like I thought she just could see them and witness what was happening. She can actually like interact and affect things?
AshleyYeah, I'm confused. Is this supposed to be something that already happened? And what does it have anything to do with this girl?
RemiNo, this is happening right now. And this girl that is dead was also controlled by the same curse that Arnie is currently in the midst of? So the connection between the previous dead girl, Jessica, who was cursed by this old lady, is still there, so Lorraine can go and touch this dead girl's body and plug back into what this old cult lady is currently doing? I don't know, it's nonsense. And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this probably is not what happened in the true story.
AshleyThere are zero witches in the true story.
RemiAny werewolves?
AshleyOne.
RemiI knew it. When the old woman's face is finally shown, she is revealed. To be the same woman Arnie had been seeing terrifying visions of. Irked by Lorraine's rude intrusion into her spell, the witch seizes control of another corpse back at the morgue and attempts to use it to attack the Warrens. Once the connection is broken, however, the corpse swiftly falls to the floor, just as lifeless as ever before. Did you like my little cat in the hat rhyme there?
AshleyThey're also gonna get in trouble for breaking and entering in here, unless they somehow manage to put that body back exactly where it was found.
RemiOh no, they just leave it as is. The corpse on the ground, the shattered front entrance. It's very obvious that people have been there. But fortunately for them, it is never addressed again. Back home, the Warrens learn of a textbook from the early Renaissance that the church used to identify and persecute witchcraft. I think we all know how that turned out. Anyway, Ed finds a section of the book referencing a murder suicide curse, and figures out that the curse can be broken by destroying the altar it was cast from. But there's a final passage written in an unknown language that Ed can't translate. Then Ed suddenly has another heart attack, passes out, and wakes up sometime later to find the house completely abandoned. Downstairs he finds the witch waiting for him. She offers a few ominous words of encouragement before disappearing in a puff of black smoke, just as Ed slowly realizes that the corpse that attacked him at the funeral home is now standing directly behind him. Still holding Lorraine's rosary beads, Ed thinks quickly and blasts the creature with the word of God and presumably the power of Christ, compelling it down into the basement. With the corpse now weakened, Ed pulls a knife out of nowhere and prepares to stab the creature in the face, but stops short after realizing that the creature is actually Lorraine, and that everything he had experienced was simply an illusion created by the witch.
AshleyIf only Arnie would have realized this during his stabbing, this could have all been avoided.
RemiEd searches the house and soon discovers another witch's totem hidden inside a vase among a bouquet of flowers they had received. That evening, Lorraine drives back to Father Kastner's house to have him translate the final passage from the spooky satanic witch occultist book, while Ed remains home to continue sleuthing for the location of the wicked witch. Down in Castner's freaky satanic cult basement, we learn that Castner had a wife who died during childbirth, and that he raised their daughter in secret for reasons, I guess? His daughter developed a fascination with the occult just like her father, and I think we all know where this is going. That's right, the witch is actually Castner's daughter. He also reveals that there is a secret tunnel system beneath his property, and reckons that the altar is probably down there somewhere. So Lorraine heads on down to check it out while Castner stays upstairs and is confronted by his witchy daughter, who swiftly slits his throat. Lorraine finds the altar relatively easily, but here's the thing. It's really big. Like really, really big. And heavy. So little old Lorraine just can't muster up enough strength to tip the damn thing over, which is pretty embarrassing because the witch is now standing directly behind her. She's very good at sneaking up behind people, apparently. Just outside, Ed arrives after deducing all in his own that the witch is Kastner's daughter.
AshleyAnd I'm assuming there is zero explanation about how he just came to this conclusion.
RemiThere is a scene explaining it, but it's kind of reaching and not really worth mentioning the details. Back down in the catacombs, Lorraine navigates her way through the maze-like hallways, but is soon caught by the witch after falling for some supernatural distraction spells. Now, with the upper hand, the witch tries stabbing Lorraine in the face with a fancy curvy colt knife, but gets clocked with a rock by Lorraine, allowing her to flee. Elsewhere, Ed is also wandering through the catacombs searching for his wife, but instead runs into the witch, who blows some mystic witch dust directly into his face, just like Michael Sarah did to McLovin with cocaine powder in the classic comedy film This Is the End.
This Is The End (clip)Hey, does this cook smell funny? Oh Michael! I've never fucking done cocaine, dude. What is the fucking- Well, you did the best shit possible for your first time, because that's good fuck fuck. I've never done this fucking drug before, man. I will walk you through my. You got some in your mustache, baby. What do you like?
RemiSo the witch gets back to her altar to try and finish the ritual and complete the curse, while a mind-controlled Ed chases Lorraine around with a sledgehammer like Jack Nicholson in The Shining. Why he brought a sledgehammer down into the catacombs? Nobody knows. Oh, and I forgot to mention that Arnie has been going through some crazy shit during all of this back in the jail infirmary. The wind is blowing all over the place, windows are exploding, he's twisting himself around and screaming, it's pretty nuts. Oh, and he levitates at one point too while trying to cut his own throat with a piece of glass. Luckily, Lorraine manages to snap Ed out of his trance with the power of love, and Ed uses his sledgehammer to smash the altar, ending the ritual and freeing Arnie from the curse. The witch is furious that her supernatural scheme has been thwarted by a couple of Bible thumpers, but there's really nothing she can do about it since her soul was also tied to the curse, and not completing it has some pretty dire consequences. Which also begs the question, what was she getting out of this curse if it succeeded? The witch is then restrained by an unseen force as a demon with razor sharp teeth that looks suspiciously similar to her, steps out of the shadows, grabs her by the face, and seemingly breaks her neck, killing her instantly. Ding dong, the witch is dead. After concluding yet another adventure defeating the forces of evil, Ed places the satanic goblet on a shelf in their basement of oddities, which you can apparently see for yourself by renting a private overnight stay at the Warren Occult Museum in Monroe, Connecticut, for the low, low cost of just $1,999 per night. That is absolutely absurd. I know, what a steal, right? You get to see the real Annabelle, which is just a raggedy and doll, in case anyone didn't know that already. A title card then reads On November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty one, Arnie Johnson was convicted on the charge of manslaughter. Arnie served five years, he married Debbie while in prison. They are still married to this day. And that was Michael Chavez's The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It. Do you have any off the cuff remarks or reactions, Ashley?
Quick Reactions And Franchise Fatigue
AshleyThis movie just seems absolutely absurd. I don't know if it was this one or the second one I watched that made me stop watching the conjuring series. But judging from the description and the scenes that you played, it had to have been this one. This movie just looks like complete trash. The dialogue is horrendous. It doesn't seem scary.
RemiYou are totally correct in that assessment. The dialogue is awful, the scenes are not scary, and the acting is pretty bad across the board as well. However, I will give it this I was never bored. Anytime there could have been a scene where I could have started getting bored, they would say something so ridiculous that I would just slap my head and be awake again. It moves very quickly, it is absurd, it is a dumb movie, but I was entertained.
AshleySo this is our second possession movie we've covered. If you had to watch one again, would you watch this one or the exorcism of Emily Rose?
RemiThis one, without a doubt. I thought the exorcism of Emily Rose was painfully slow at time. Like I said a moment ago, this one moves at a very swift pace, and it's an easy watch. It's dumb, it's entertaining, it's not scary, but you know, it's looks cool at least.
AshleyAlright, well, maybe Remy tonight we'll watch The Last Rights, since now it sounds like you're a conjuring fan.
RemiI am still not a conjuring fan. I think the entire series has exactly one scary scene, and that is the clapping scene from the first movie. And yeah, this is a dumb movie, but it's not one that I would ever seek out on my own or pay to go see in a theater. I mean, apologies to anyone out there who is a fan of these movies, but I don't find them clever or smart. They are just kinda dumb popcorn movies, and I can't really take them seriously. I wish they were actually scary. I wish they were actually well written, but they aren't.
AshleyAnd what's crazy is I am fairly certain that this qualified as
Release Strategy And Box Office
Ashleya blockbuster, so let's get into the release.
RemiThe Conjuring The Devil Made Me Do It was originally supposed to be released on September 11, 2020. But the COVID-19 pandemic put the kibosh on those plans, when theaters around the world shut down, forcing studio release schedules to be pushed back. The Devil Made Me Do It was eventually released in the United Kingdom on May 26, 2021, before arriving in the United States on June 4, 2021, through Warner Brothers Pictures and New Line Cinema. As a reminder, this was when Warner Brothers was trying their little experiment of releasing all of their 2021 films in both theaters and on HBO Max at the exact same time. So when The Devil Made Me Do It hit theaters in the United States, it was simultaneously available to stream for free on HBO Max.
AshleyOkay, then we probably definitely watched this together. We were watching everything that was being put on HBO at this time.
RemiWe definitely saw this together. I think we saw every single movie that was released in 2021, especially on HBO Max because they were doing this little trial run, trying to get new subscribers. Despite releasing on HBO Max the same day, the film debuted at the top of the US box office, bringing in about $24 million opening weekend. The movie stayed on the streaming service for one month before being removed, then returned on October 21st, 2021. So the film was doing well enough in theaters that they said, you know what, let's take it off of HBO for a while and uh make a couple extra bucks. And it worked because the Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It, was another financial success for the franchise, grossing over five times its production budget of around $40 million, grossing $65.6 million in the United States and Canada, as well as an additional $140.8 million internationally for a worldwide total of $206.4 million during COVID.
AshleyThat is absolutely crazy. It shows you how many people love this series, and if anyone has a question of why they keep making them, $206.4 million during COVID. That's absolutely bonkers.
RemiYeah, how many films have we discussed that came out during COVID? And it's just like they made $100,000, or they basically made nothing because it was released during this time. This is the only film I think we have discussed that was like a huge financial success during this time. They really, really beat the odds. And for this movie? Come on. On Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds a 56% approval rating based on 253 reviews, with a critical consensus that reads, The Devil Made Me Do It represents a come down for the core conjuring films, although Vir Farmiga and Patrick Wilson keep the audience invested. I don't agree with this review, and usually I'm on the same page as Rotten Tomatoes. One person who wasn't entirely sold on the movie was Arnie Cheyenne Johnson himself. After the film's release, Johnson said he enjoyed certain parts of the film, but felt that much of the story had been fictionalized and that the real events did not happen the way they were portrayed on screen.
AshleyWow, Arnie, spoiler alert, that's for me to describe.
RemiI really, really, really hope that there were not people out there who thought this is how the true events went down. This is absurd. Nobody should ever believe that this stuff actually occurred. Johnson was particularly critical of the film's ending, as well as some of the supernatural elements that were added to the story. Imagine if there were werewolves, Arnie. That's all I gotta say. A fourth film in the franchise, titled The Conjuring Last Rights, was released in 2025. And there will likely be many more sequels, prequels, spin-offs, and reboots in the years ahead until the series eventually becomes unprofitable.
AshleyGod help us if they want to reboot this shit.
RemiAnd that was Michael Chavez's The Conjuring the Devil Made Me Do It. But I'm ready to leave the world of demons and Satanists
The Real Glatzel Family Timeline
Remiand jump scares and Hollywood nonsense behind, and hear about the actual case that inspired the film. Ashley, are you ready to take it from here?
AshleyI sure am. Let's everyone grab your rosary bead, your holy water, and chalices, and head on down to Bridgeport, Connecticut. Inside the home of Carl and Judy Glatzel are their four children: 26-year-old Debbie, 14-year-old Carl Jr., 13-year-old Alan, and 11-year-old David. There's also Debbie's seven-year-old son John from a brief teenage marriage. Debbie is packing the belongings she's been storing at her parents' house while she's been living with Mary Johnson for the last four years. Mary has four children of her own, three young daughters, and her 18-year-old son, Arnie Cheyenne Johnson. Despite his young age, Arnie spent much of his life acting as the family's provider. He even left school in the 10th grade to help support his mom and sisters. By July 1980, Arnie and Debbie were dating and preparing for the next chapter of their lives together. They plan to marry in the fall and after months of searching, found a new home in Newtown, Connecticut. The move is scheduled for the very next day. Wanting to continue helping Mary raise her daughters, they come up with a plan. Mary and the girls would live in the main house while Arnie and Debbie occupied the small apartment attached to an extension of the property. The next morning, Debbie and the Johnsons make the short drive to their new home, but the excitement is quickly dampened when they arrive. The house is in rougher shape than they expected and clearly needs work. To make matters worse, the landlord's niece has decided to remain in the detached apartment for a few more months, despite initially agreeing to vacate days prior. A few hours later, Judy arrives with Debbie's younger brothers to help with the move, and Debbie assigns them all age-appropriate chores.
RemiAge-appropriate chores, like the little ones are cleaning the dishes and the bigger ones are cleaning the ceilings?
AshleyYou know, they're she's not gonna give the 11-year-old something to have to do with a hammer.
RemiOkay, that makes sense.
AshleyWhile David is sweeping a bedroom, he suddenly feels two large hands pressing on his stomach before forcefully shoving him backward onto the bed, which in some sources it did say this was a waterbed. Terrified, he bolts from the house and refuses to go back inside. With the detached apartment still occupied, Arnie and Debbie decide to return to the Glatzell home and spend the night there. During dinner, David seems unusually quiet, but no one thinks much of it at first. Later that evening, after some encouragement from his brother Alan, David finally tells the adults what happened earlier that day. According to David, he wasn't just pushed by an unseen force, he encountered a ghost.
RemiLike he saw a ghost, not just felt one?
AshleyHe did say he saw a man that he could see through, at least in the book I read on this case, which I will talk soon, very soon, about the sources and how I'm gonna tackle that.
RemiBut it wasn't a gaunt old woman with razor sharp fangs.
AshleyIt definitely was not that.
RemiOkay, just clarifying.
AshleyAnd before disappearing, the entity delivered a chilling warning. The adults dismiss the story as a child's nightmare or an overactive imagination and send him back to bed.
RemiAs anyone would.
AshleyOkay, and before we go any further, it's important to address a major challenge
Conflicting Sources And What Overlaps
Ashleywith this case. Depending on the source, the events that followed can look very different. The most detailed account comes from Gerald Brittle's 1983 book, The Devil in Connecticut. However, in the 2023 Netflix documentary, The Devil on Trial, David, Alan, Arnie, and Carl Jr.'s descriptions are often different from Brittle's version of events. Interestingly, nearly everyone involved remains adamant that David was genuinely possessed. Everyone that is, except for Carl Jr.
RemiDavid has stuck by it as well. He never confessed that he was faking it or exaggerating or anything like that. He has stuck to his story of being possessed as a child.
AshleyHe has. And even though Carl Jr. doesn't think he was possessed, he does think that David believes this experience happened to him.
RemiIs there like a psychological explanation for this sort of thing?
AshleyWe will get into all of that later. It makes sense to save it for later. So you can kind of hear the unfolding of these events and how different people have perceived them. There are, however, several key points where the accounts from Brittle, Alan, Arnie, and David do overlap. Throughout this episode, I try my best to note where specific claims come from and highlight where the stories diverge. For the most part, I do try to mostly focus on the Netflix documentary because that's coming from the people who allegedly experienced all this themselves, rather than a author who we'll get into later had financial interest and connection to the Warrens to make this a quote unquote scary story. According to both Brittle's book and The Devil on Trial, strange occurrences began almost immediately after the visit to the rental home. Within days, family members reportedly heard footsteps in the attic, scratching sounds coming from inside the walls, and unexplained knocks on the front door. David insisted the entity he encountered, the one that warned him to beware, was responsible. He claimed it was watching the family and trying to get inside the home. By this point, most of the family appeared to take David's warnings seriously. The notable exceptions were Carl Sr. and Jr., both of whom maintained many of these events either never happened or were greatly exaggerated. As the disturbances continued, Judy sought help from the church and contacted Father Dennis to bless the home. In Brittle's account, this decision was further motivated by several instances in which the entity Physically attack David. Those incidents are not mentioned at this stage in the Netflix documentary. David described the entity, whom he called the beast, as a large red figure with horns and black eyes.
RemiLiterally the devil.
AshleyHe described it as the literal devil.
RemiYeah, like a cartoon version of the devil.
AshleySometime within the first couple of weeks after Debbie and Arnie tried to move into their new house, Father Dennis visited the Glatzel home and performed a blessing. He reportedly observed nothing unusual during his visit. However, that night, things allegedly took a dramatic turn.
RemiWhen he was gone.
AshleyLike the second he left.
RemiHow convenient.
AshleyDavid suddenly began screaming that the beast was coming. Family members claim the house shook or rumbled for 30 to 40 seconds. When it ended, David reportedly warned them, Don't let it in. It's evil. This is where the accounts begin to diverge even further. In The Devil in Connecticut, David reportedly claimed forty additional entities entered the property alongside the beast that night. These creatures were described as demons with partial animal features and hoof-like feet. Neither David nor Alan mention anything resembling this in the documentary The Devil on Trial, where the focus remains on a single demonic entity.
RemiSo they were saying like the house was being surrounded by demons, basically.
AshleyIn the 1983 book.
RemiThat is preposterous.
AshleyWhat does remain consistent across accounts is what happened next. Convinced that the church blessing did little to stop whatever was haunting the house, Judy began looking elsewhere for help. She turned to a neighbor who was known for reading tarot cards. The neighbor suggested a psychic her mother-in-law consulted years earlier. Someone she believed might be able to help the family understand what they were dealing with. Well, and that recommendation brought two of the most famous paranormal investigators in America into the case. Ed and Lorraine Warren. Before we continue with what happened to the Glatzel family,
Who The Warrens Really Were
Ashleyit's worth taking a moment to understand who Ed and Lorraine Warren were. Both were born in Bridgeport, Connecticut and met as teenagers while working at a movie theater in 1944. They married the following year and had a daughter shortly after. Ed was a self-taught and self-proclaimed demonologist who dedicated his life to studying alleged cases of hauntings and possession.
RemiSelf-taught, huh?
AshleyLorraine claimed to be a clairvoyant and medium capable of perceiving supernatural entities and energies. In 1942, the couple founded the New England Society for Psychic Research, which is often described as the oldest ghost hunting organization in New England.
RemiBut only in New England.
AshleyIt sounds like pretty much all of their work was done in the New England area, but they were also like pretty much celebrities there. So it would make sense that that's kind of where all their calls were coming from. According to the Society, its investigations drew on the expertise of a wide range of professionals, including clergy, medical doctors, nurses, researchers, and law enforcement. Over the following decades, the Warrens became two of the most recognizable figures in paranormal investigation. They lectured extensively, investigated hundreds of alleged hauntings, and co-authored numerous books, including two with Gerald Brittle, the same author whose account serves as one of the primary sources for this case, and the inspiration behind the movie. Even if you've never heard of Ed and Lorraine Warren, you've almost certainly encountered stories connected to them. As we discussed, their investigations inspired the massively successful conjuring franchise, and they were also involved in the cases depicted in the Amityville Horror and The Haunting in Connecticut. Did you see The Haunting in Connecticut?
RemiI didn't see that one, actually. I remember the poster from it, but no, I really don't think I got around to seeing that one.
AshleyI saw it in college. It is rated R, unlike some of these other ones. I think a lot of the conjurings are rated R too, but I do remember it being really scary. But that was when I was much younger. I do remember it not being cheesy, like what the conjuring series has morphed into. By the summer of 1980, the Warrens had already built a reputation as experts in the paranormal. So when Judy Gladsell went looking for help, it wasn't long before their paths crossed. After several days of searching, Debbie finally tracked down Lorraine Warren's phone number and pleads for help. On July 14th, 1980, Ed and Lorraine make the first of what would become nearly nightly visits to the Glatzel home. They gather the family together and listen as each person describes what they've witnessed happening to David. Almost everyone participates. Almost. One notable absence is Carl Sr. Throughout much of this ordeal, he remains on the sidelines. He isn't particularly religious and believes David's behavior is more likely the result of mental illness than a supernatural force. In his view, entertaining talks of demons and possession would only make the situation worse. Which, if this is a psychotic break, which will get into our thoughts about what was going on here at the end, then he is 100% correct. Carl Jr. shares a similar skepticism and to this day maintains that David was never possessed. As Ed and Lorraine listened to the family stories, they began asking detailed questions about David's behavior. Has he been growling, cursing, spitting, acting aggressively? To Carl Jr., these questions felt less like an investigation and more like a suggestion. Looking back, he felt the Warrens were effectively telling the family how a possessed child should behave, reinforcing their fears rather than objectively evaluating them. According to accounts, Ed attempts to provoke the entity into revealing itself. In response, three loud knocks are allegedly heard within the home. I imagine it looked and sounded something like this.
Ed WarrenAnd the blood of Christ. I command you to reveal your identity. Give me some sign. Give me some sign that you're here. Good. You want this family to stay here in this house? I command you in the name of Jesus Christ. Reveal your identity. The name of Jesus Christ and the blood of Christ. I command you to reveal your identity in some way.
AshleyOkay, Remy, what did you see in that video?
RemiIt looks like a grainy old VHS camcorder video of a kitchen back in the 1980s, I'm assuming. And the person talking is not in front of the camera. They are behind the camera. And they are demanding that the spirit show himself or themselves in a pretty unconvincing tone, in my opinion. And after a while of shouting into this empty room, the table is like pulled forward.
AshleyAt first, just the chairs, and then subsequently the table moves a little bit as well.
RemiYeah, fishing line.
AshleyThat's what I was gonna say. One of the biggest problems I have about this video is there's a lot of blank space above the table. You do not see the ground at all. Which you think, if you wanted to make it believable, you would show the ground and that there's nothing that is being pulled.
RemiThis is before YouTube when the comments section would have roasted these guys alive.
AshleyWell, roughly the same time the Glatzel family reportedly hears the knocks on the table. Lorraine is walking through the home conducting her own assessment and claims to see a large black mass standing near David.
Demonic EntityI knew it.
AshleyConvinced that the family's dealing with more than a simple haunting, Ed explains his theory of demonic possession to the Glatzels, including to 11-year-old David and 13-year-old Alan. According to Ed, possession unfolds in four stages. The first is permission. This occurs when someone knowingly or unknowingly opens the door to a paranormal entity. In the Glatzel case, the Warrens believed this happened years earlier when Debbie experimented with a Ouija board.
RemiThat easy, huh?
AshleyThe second stage is infestation, in which spirits or entities make their presence known but remain external to the victim.
RemiSo like banging on the walls, opening the cupboard doors, moving chairs around, flushing toilets, that sort of thing.
AshleyI don't even think that severely. They kind of explained it in the Netflix documentary as like it could even be a loved one whose spirit is just around you. So you might not even know they're there. Or it might be they do make their presence on trouble. It might be like a little slight knock or something like that. But I don't think it's something as severe as like opening the cabinets and having shit fall off. Next comes oppression. During this stage, the entity begins influencing a person's thoughts, emotions, and behavior. Victims may become withdrawn, volatile, aggressive, or act in ways that seem completely out of character.
RemiWhich could be explained by depression or bipolar disorder.
AshleyThe final stage possession. The complete takeover of an individual by a demonic entity. According to Ed, this stage is rare but extremely dangerous. The ultimate goal of the entity is the destruction of the family unit. And if left unchecked, the outcome could be fatal. After hearing the family's account, Ed tells the Gladzuls, David is in the oppression stage. But David isn't the only person he's concerned about. Carl Jr. may also be at risk. Before we move forward here, he is telling this in front of an 11-year-old boy and a 13-year-old boy. Those are incredibly impressionable stages. And this is after extensive questioning of is David doing this? Is David doing this? Is David doing this? He and Lorraine, in my opinion, are feeding the family information about if your claims are true, if David is telling the truth, this is how he should be acting.
RemiExactly. Instead of asking them what he's been experiencing, they are telling him what he should be experiencing.
AshleyAnd I am by no way saying that David made all of this up. He stands by it to this day. We will talk more kind of about alternative explanations and things at the very end. So just stay tuned and let the story unfold. Okay, so Ed says Carl Jr. is at risk. So this is another point where the sources diverge significantly. In The Devil in Connecticut, Gerald Brittle repeatedly portrays Carl Jr. as increasingly volatile and difficult to control. He is described as constantly arguing with family members, defying authority, and at times becoming physically aggressive.
RemiAnd this is the one who wasn't possessed.
AshleyThis is the oldest son. He is 15. The one that was quote unquote possessed was the youngest, 11. Throughout the book, Carl is painted as a troubled teenager who wants nothing to do with the Warrens and whose behavior may indicate the early stages of demonic influence. None of these claims are discussed in The Devil on Trial, which remember has interviews with all of the brothers and Arnie. In fact, Carl Jr.'s portrayal in the book is so unflattering that it's easy to understand why he remains one of the Warren's most vocal critics.
RemiHe's not even in the movie.
AshleyIf Brittle's account is inaccurate, then the book effectively transformed him from a skeptical teenager into a violent juvenile delinquent. A characterization that would understandably be difficult to forgive.
RemiSo they made him an angsty teen who was untrustworthy in the public's eyes.
AshleyAnd I did read in a news article. Spoiler alert, Carl does sue the author and the Warrens years and years and years later. And in the lawsuit, he claimed that after this book came out, he had to drop out of school and like lost out on jobs because he is portrayed awful in the book, just horrendously. But regardless of whether Ed's concerns about Carl had any merit, his message to the family is clear. The situation is becoming dangerous.
RemiCreating a sense of urgency.
AshleyThe Warrens urge the Glassels to seek help from the Catholic Church. When Judy explains she already contacted church officials without much success, the Warrens agree to reach out to the Archbishop themselves. In the meantime, the family is instructed to pray over David regularly and read passages from the Book of Psalms. They are also encouraged to document everything they experience. Advice they take very seriously. Debbie begins keeping a detailed journal and purchases a Polaroid camera. Judy dusts off her tape recorder. If something truly paranormal is happening inside the house, they want proof. From this point forward, possession becomes the center of the Glatzell's lives. Their
“Evidence” Gathering And Suggestibility
Ashleydays revolve around photographs, audio recordings, journal entries, and prayer. Every strange noise, unusual behavior, or unexplained event is documented. What started as a frightening mystery quickly becomes an all-consuming obsession. The strain on the family is immense. Carl Sr. gradually distances himself from the situation. He stops coming home for dinner, spends more time at work, and goes straight to bed when he gets home. Whether it's exhaustion, frustration, skepticism, or a combination of all three, he appears to be checking out of the increasingly chaotic environment. Meanwhile, the warrants are at the house nearly every night, always with cameras and tape recorders in hand. Here's a clip of one of their recordings of David. Get out of my son. Get out of my son. Run. Run, son, run, get up, get away from my son.
David's possession (audio)David, David. What up, soil.
Ed WarrenAmen.
AshleyAnd sidebar here, that audio recording is played in the end credits of The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It.
RemiTwo thoughts on this clip you just played. First is I can totally understand why the dad was just going up to his room and distancing himself from the family while all of this mumbo jumbo was going on downstairs.
AshleyAnd pretty much any time priests or the Warrens would come to the home, Carl Jr. would be like, Can you guys go away? Like, my family is nuts. I don't want you here. In Gerald Brittle's book that's portrayed as him being under the influence of the demon, when it's a perfectly reasonable explanation. Every time you guys come here, our night goes to fucking shit. Get out of here.
RemiGuy just wants to come home, watch some TV, drink a beer, and have dinner. But no, he's got an exorcism going on. How annoying would that be?
AshleyNot even an exorcism at this point. Just two quote unquote demonologists and a psychic just with their tape recorders splashing holy water on your 11-year-old kid.
RemiOkay, so this is like the pre-exorcism. They're trying to keep the demon from fully taking over David.
AshleyOh, yeah. We're nowhere near the exorcism yet. And David is not possessed. In this oppression stage, the demon can basically take control of you for a certain amount of periods of time, and then it'll leave, and the kid will just be kid or person, will just be back to normal.
RemiWell, the other thing that came to mind when you were playing that video was the real life recordings of Annalise Michelle that we played during our exorcism of Emily Rose episode. And those sounded way more demonic than anything on the tape you just played. This just sounds like a kid sort of making a voice and his parents lecturing him while some guy says Bible verses in the background.
AshleyThe case of Annalys Michelle, I mean, we we talked about it. So if you want to know what our opinions was of what was happening, go back and listen to that from season two. But those recordings sounded absolutely terrifying. And some of the behaviors that she was exhibiting at the time while there were explanations for them, I could understand why people in that small England town truly did think she was possessed. That is a much more extreme case than this, in my opinion.
RemiAbsolutely. The symptoms she was showing were much more severe than anything David is doing here.
AshleyWell, Judy becomes convinced that David is a danger to himself, or that others may somehow be endangered by whatever is affecting him, and she no longer allows him to leave the house. Keep in mind, this is an 11-year-old boy, and it is summer vacation. So now David is just on house arrest.
RemiThen you should stop pretending to be possessed by the devil.
AshleyDon't say he's pretending. I do not think he's pretending. We'll get into that later. And sleep becomes a luxury. Family members take shifts throughout the night, so someone is always awake and watching David. According to the Netflix documentary, The Devil on Trial, David's behavior changes dramatically after the Warrens become involved. The entity allegedly begins speaking through him, hurling profanities and vicious insults at family members. During one particularly intense episode, Carl Sr. reportedly storms into the room, slaps David, and orders him to stop. According to Carl Jr., the demon obeyed, and the voice immediately fell silent.
RemiDemons don't like being slapped, but you shouldn't hit your kids.
AshleyThe episodes continue and allegedly become more violent. Family members claim David begins attacking them physically, often trying to choke those around him. Some incidents last only minutes, while others stretch on for hours. During these episodes, adults restrain the 11-year-old boy, pray over him, and repeatedly command the entity to leave his body.
RemiHow long was this going on for? Days, weeks?
AshleySo it starts at the beginning of July, and the exorcism occurs at the beginning of September. So right now we're still about in July, early August.
RemiSeptember? So this goes on for a full season, basically? Two months. That's a long time.
AshleyThe general sequence of events appear in both the documentary and Brittle's book. However, Brittle's book is considerably more dramatic. But before Before we get to that, here's Ed Warren describing what he claimed to observe.
Ed WarrenAnd he'd have his supper, lay down, but then just around eleven o'clock was when this would occur to David. As Lemaid said, all of a sudden you'd look at him, he was normal. The next second it wasn't David anymore. And uh this would go on until the sun came up. Uh the boy would roll around, uh he would go into fits. Uh I seen one time when he actually levitated, had extreme strength, uh terrible obscenities would come from him.
RemiOkay, first thought right off the bat. That's Ed Warren? He looks absolutely nothing like Patrick Wilson. He looks more like Paul Sorvino from Goodfellas.
AshleyI was thinking the guy from Caddyshack.
RemiRodney Dangerfield?
This Is The End (clip)I don't get no respect at all.
RemiI don't know if I'd go that far, but I can see it.
AshleyIn The Devil in Connecticut, the demon doesn't just speak through David, it physically assaults him. The book claims the entity choked, punched, scratched, and stabbed, and at one point even shot the boy, leaving welts and injuries across his body.
RemiHe had a welt from being shot.
AshleyIt's so funny because they really talk a lot about him in the book being pushed and quote unquote stabbed, and then at one point they're like, he was even shot, explanation mark. But don't say anything about why they thought that. Or the author slash the Warrens thought that. At times, David supposedly turned blue from lack of oxygen as the entity strangled him. The book further claims his hands and legs levitated, objects moved on their own, and his body underwent disturbing physical transformations. His face swelled, his nose curled upward like a pig's snout, and his eyes became completely black. At one point, his head even rotated 180 degrees. What's notable is that very little to no physical evidence of these alleged injuries appears in the documentary. Several photographs of David during this period are shown, but none display the severe marks or wounds described in Brittle's account. One image presented as evidence of David being choked simply shows him laying down with his hands positioned in front of his face as though he may be holding something.
RemiI was gonna say, describing it as hands and legs levitated, but not as he levitated? Does that mean he was just laying down and his arms and legs went up in the air?
AshleyYeah, it was described as he was laying face down.
RemiThat is so stupid.
AshleyAnd if this actually happened, there would be no way in hell there wouldn't be a picture of it. Debbie had a Polaroid camera, the Warrens had a camera with them at all times, and a video recorder. How was none of this, including him being blue with a pig snout and black eyes? How are there no pictures of this? How, how, how?
RemiI was wondering the exact same thing because you just were talking about how much stuff they had to document everything. But they don't have any of this except for some after Polaroids of some of the injuries, none of which look like gunshot or stab wounds.
AshleyIn the documentary, there aren't even pictures of David with Welts on his body. They show that one photo of him that is literally him laying down with his eyes closed, with his hands in front of his face, kind of gripped, looking like he might be choking a neck. And that is it. Anyway, as the episodes allegedly become more frequent and severe, Ed Warren makes it clear that an exorcism is the only way to prevent David from seriously harming himself or someone else. From there, the process shifts towards formal church involvement.
RemiThe church really does have an official exorcism wing.
AshleyThey do, yes. And according to accounts, several priests actually make repeated visits to the home. Most arrive expecting to find nothing unusual, and at the time of their visits, they reportedly observe no overt paranormal activity.
RemiGood on these guys for just being honest and saying we got there and nothing happened, like usual.
AshleyHowever, after hearing the family's descriptions and reviewing what they were told and shown by the Warrens, they agree further action may be necessary.
RemiWait, so they were just convinced that it happened when they weren't there?
AshleyHow it's kind of described in the book is that because of where this takes place, several of the priests had worked with or knew about the Warrens, and like many people in the community, viewed them as reliable. So they just kind of trusted what all of these people were telling them. And they didn't say, because they don't have the power to say, an exorcism has to happen. What they did agree to do is contact the heads of the Catholic Church and say, would you consider this? Because the heads of the Catholic Church in England are the people that have to authorize it.
RemiSo did an official member sent from the Catholic Church perform the exorcism?
AshleyWe're almost there. What was told to the Glatzells is that before the Catholic Church would authorize an exorcism, David had to undergo a psychological evaluation. This reportedly took place in mid-August. The psychiatrist examined David and, according to the accounts, found no evidence of mental illness. With no clear medical explanation and growing concern from those involved, an exorcism was authorized. David's exorcism took place at St. Joseph's Church on September 2nd,
The Church Exorcism And Arnie’s Challenge
Ashley1980. Five priests were in attendance, led by Father Virgilac. The Glatzel family was there, along with, of course, Ed and Lorraine Warren. According to the documentary, Father Virgilac warned beforehand that exorcisms can be extremely intense and in rare cases even fatal. Once the ritual begins, the atmosphere in the room reportedly shifts. The temperature drops dramatically, and David begins reacting almost immediately. He is described as shouting profanities, growling, hissing, and violently shaking as the prayers continue. His facial expressions change, and at times he appears to lash out at the priest when he breaks free from restraint. Here's what Ed and Lorraine had to say about it.
Lorraine WarrenThere's another beautiful church, and it was down in that basement, which was adjacent to the school.
Ed WarrenThe pews were actually moving, which are bolted down. Hymn books that were in the uh seats next to us flew off the seats. The boy broke away from two of us and attacked the priest. And attacked the priest.
RemiSo let me get this straight. They had multiple people holding this young boy down as they were doing this to him, and then were surprised that he was trying to break free.
AshleyYeah, it's how it's depicted in all the movies where it's all the adults are like holding a limb and the kid is like That's what's described.
RemiWell, it definitely sounds like some crazy exorcist shit going on in this church.
AshleyThroughout the exorcism, Arnie and Judy stay close, speaking to David directly in an attempt to calm him and bring him back. At one point, Arnie reportedly placed a crucifix against David's forehead, which is said to cause a burning and sizzling reaction.
RemiDid it burn his skin and leave a mark?
AshleyYou know, I did not hear anyone talk about if it left a scar, but in the documentary and in the book, it is said that this sizzling reaction did happen.
RemiWell, I guess we'll just have to take their word for it.
AshleySoon after, David's tongue swells, making it difficult for him to breathe. As the situation escalates, Father Virgilac ultimately decides to stop out of concern that continuing could seriously harm or even kill David. At that moment, Arnie tells the entity to leave David and take him instead. The Warrens are stunned and immediately question why he would make such a statement, reminding him of the perceived danger of challenging a demonic force. Despite the intensity of the experience, the exorcism is ultimately considered a success. David later states he remembers none of it. In the Devil on Trial, the documentary, this september second exorcism is the only one described. However, in Gerald Brittle's The Devil in Connecticut, the case is said to continue beyond that point. According to that version, David undergoes additional exorcisms on september eighth and another in Quebec, Canada on november seventh, nineteen eighty one. This last one raises logistical questions within the broader timeline. If the Glatzells were in Canada at that time, they could not have been at Arnie Johnson's subsequent murder trial, which is something at least Debbie would not have missed. In the Netflix documentary, the Glatzel Sons state that life largely returned to normal after the September 2nd exorcism, but the Warrens remained concerned. In October 1980, they visit the local police department to inform them that they were involved in an exorcism where someone allegedly challenged the demonic entity. Lorraine in particular expressed her belief. Based on her claimed psychic impressions, there was still a risk of serious harm or even death. She warns that the situation was not truly over and that violence could still occur as a result of what had taken place. Another fucked up difference is in the book, this encounter is preface against a claim that the police were going to the Glatzel home twice a week because Carl Jr. was out of control, stabbing people with fire pokers, holding people hostage with knives. And the Warrens had to convince the police to not take him to Juvie. In the documentary, the detective who got this meeting with the Warrens when Lorraine went in and shared her concerns said, We knew who the Glatzel family was because we got a couple noise complaints once or twice.
RemiBecause of the demons.
AshleyBecause the family was probably screaming like lunatics all night every night. In late September 1980, Debbie lost her job at a dog kennel in Newtown,
Alan Bono’s Killing And Possible Motives
Ashleybut her former employer recommended her to the manager of another kennel in Brookfield. The recommendation led to a new opportunity in late October, when 40-year-old Alan Bono offered Debbie a job, which came with an apartment on the property. Over the following months, Arnie and Debbie spent a significant amount of time around Bono and they became friends. At some point, Debbie is said to have had a brief affair with him. According to the documentary, Arnie was aware of the relationship.
RemiMotive.
AshleyHe is described as being increasingly possessive of Debbie, although accounts suggest he continued to maintain at least a service level friendship with Bono. Still, I imagine the dynamic between the three was complicated and likely strained beneath the surface. This is where the accounts begin to diverge again. In The Devil in Connecticut, Bono is portrayed in a much darker light. He's described as an incoherent, frequently intoxicated man with a violent temper and a deep dislike of animals. In that version of events, his poor management of the kennels is even blamed for the deaths of several dogs. These claims are not addressed in the Netflix documentary. What I will add is how he is portrayed in that book is just absolutely disgusting. This man was stabbed to death, and he is just portrayed as someone who basically deserved it and had it coming, and oh yeah, he hated dogs.
RemiHe isn't portrayed any better in the film, but they don't show him hating on dogs.
AshleyIt's really, really, really gross how he is depicted. It's just shameful. Arnie Johnson reportedly woke up on February 16th, 1981, feeling unwell. He called out sick from his job as a tree surgeon at Wright Tree Service, took a pain reliever and antibiotic, and started feeling better around mid morning. Debbie spent the day working at the kennels as usual. Arnie's three younger sisters were also there, having the day off from school and planning to stay with the couple for a few nights so Arnie's mom could get some rest. In the afternoon, Alan Bono offered to take everyone to a local pub for lunch. The adults reportedly had a few glasses of wine before returning to the kennel. Keep in mind Arnie was feeling unwell and reportedly took an antibiotic that day. You are not supposed to mix antibiotics with wine. Back at the property, Bono later invited the group over for pizza after Arnie fixed his stereo. By this point, Arnie, who several sources say was also drinking, decided it was time to leave as Bono appeared increasingly intoxicated.
RemiWell, first off, in the film, his name is Bruno and not Bono, and he is forcing Arnie to drink beers with him in the movie. And it seems like Arnie is not feeling well and he's really not into it, but you know, Bruno needs a drinking buddy.
AshleyIn the book, it's basically described as Bono is the only one drinking, and Debbie and Arnie are not. In the documentary, Arnie admits that we had several glasses of wine at lunch.
RemiYeah, the way it's depicted in the movie is this guy is getting blackout drunk all by himself in the middle of the day for no reason at all.
AshleySo after Arnie and Debbie decided it was time to leave, Arnie later claimed he had no memory of what happened after stepping out of the front door. Because of that, the account of the following events comes primarily from Debbie and his sisters. According to their statements, as the group was leaving, Bono allegedly grabbed one of Arnie's sisters and refused to let her go. Arnie confronted him and demanded that he release her. When Bono refused, a fight broke out outside the kennel. Two of the sisters ran to the car, while Debbie and another sister attempted to intervene and separate the men. During later testimony, one of the sisters described Arnie as quote, growling like an animal, unquote, as he pulled out a five-inch pocket knife and stabbed Bono four or five times. Debbie and the other sisters gave similar accounts of the altercation in subsequent police interviews. After Bono collapsed to the ground, Arnie walked away from the scene and into the nearby woods. In a state of panic, Debbie called her parents and told them to come to the kennel immediately. The Carls and Judy rushed over, leaving David and Alan alone at the Glassell home. According to the documentary, David became convinced that Arnie was still possessed and was walking to the house to kill him. Fearing for his safety, Alan and David locked the doors and barricaded themselves inside. That must have been so scary. These kids are like now 12 and 13, and they think a demon-possessed man who just stabbed someone is now slowly sauntering over to kill them. These poor boys. After Bono was transported to the hospital, an ambulance driver noticed a man walking slowly down the road who matched the police description of the suspect. He stopped to question him and immediately called police. It was Arnie Johnson. He appeared disheveled and as though he had been in a physical altercation, but didn't resist. According to some accounts, he told authorities, I need help because I've got a drinking problem. Arnie was taken into custody and initially charged with assault. The charge was upgraded to murder after Alan Bono died at Danbury Hospital at 7 40 PM. It was the first murder in the history of Brookfield, Connecticut. Following his arrest, Arnie reportedly fell asleep for roughly 20 to 25 minutes while in custody. When he woke, he asked why he was there. After being informed he was being charged with murder and the death of Alan Bono, he insisted it couldn't be true. There is no way he killed his friend. To this day, he insists he has no memory of the incident. Now, of course, if you ask the Warrens, they say him walking down the road in this trance light state, falling asleep, having no recollection of anything before and after he woke up. To them, that's evidence of clear possession. To me, it's someone who was blacked out, either because they drank too much or because they drank and because they had taken an antibiotic at some point in the day, they had some adverse reaction.
RemiThis entire story can be explained without demonic possession. Very logically, in fact.
AshleyThe first four are described as brief trance-like states that really only lasted a few seconds. Arnie basically just zones out. At one point, he like swears in church and then he's immediately awoken from this quote unquote possession. Coincidentally, the final two possessive episodes occurred on the day of the murder. The first involved Arnie attacking Debbie earlier in the day, and the final episode culminated in the killing of Alan Bono. Of note, Arnie does not mention any of these possessions in the documentary. He really doesn't say much about the murder. He does say that he does think he was possessed at some point, and now he has the power to fight it off, but he never straight up says this happened because of a devil possession. I was possessed several times before. He just kind of says, I don't remember anything. And it just leads the viewers to conclude that he does think he was possessed, but it's nothing like how it's portrayed in the book, how he had these repeated possessions, and it was obvious he was possessed at the time he killed this man.
RemiThere are people putting words in his mouth. It seems like this guy blacked out and really has no memory of what happened. And other people who weren't there are filling in the gaps.
AshleyAnd I actually truly do think that's what happened. I think he blacked out on that day. I think he had mixed some alcohol with an antibiotic. This happened in the 1980s. He probably didn't realize that you are not supposed to drink on antibiotics, so he's probably thinking. Thinking, I didn't drink that much. And it happened. He forgot. He does not have memory of this. And remember how I mentioned there was this affair with Debbie and Allen. And even if he told himself, I forgive him, I forgive her, there's no way there wouldn't be this lingering, simmering anger towards both of them.
RemiIn either scenario, there's a motive. This isn't like an out-of-the-blue, unprovoked attack. In the likely scenario of him being upset that this man was literally having sex with his girlfriend. And in the other situation, Bono is getting all handsy with one of the other women, and he is provoked that way. So either way, this is a situation where something happened that leads to this attack. It's not random.
AshleyAnd there has been zero discrepancies on that he did grab one of the girls and was trying to prevent them to leave, not because he was trying to do anything harmful or nefarious to the girls. He was just a drunk guy and didn't want to be left home alone. But regardless, he grabbed one of Arnie's sisters and wasn't letting her go. I'm not saying that's an excuse to take out a knife and stop someone, but if you're with someone who is drunk, you could easily see how this could escalate and turn deadly. Does not mean he's possessed by the devil. In the days that followed, the murder became front page news, with the media attention intensifying in part due to public statements from, of course, Ed and Lorraine Warren. At the same time, Debbie changed her initial statement about witnessing the stabbing. While she acknowledged the affair with Bono, she insisted it had nothing to do with his death.
RemiWait, so she's saying she never even saw the stabbing occur?
AshleyShe said she saw a fight, but she didn't see anyone being stabbed or Arnie take out a knife. Six days after the murder, Lorraine Warren provided a local news reporter with audio recordings from David's alleged possession. In multiple interviews, she described incidences such as levitating furniture and other paranormal activity, insisting that his possession was real. The Catholic Church confirmed an exorcism had taken place with David, but declined to comment on Arnie Johnson's case or the claim that he was possessed at the time of the killing.
RemiSo the Catholic Church is not admitting on record that the demon or whatever that was possessing David hopped into Arnie during the exorcism.
AshleyThey're basically saying, like, yes, we had an exorcism with David Glatzell. Yes, we do believe he was possessed. We are saying nothing about this murder because it has nothing to do with our involvement, which is true.
RemiYou'd think they'd mention if Arnie grabbed David and said, Come into me to the demon.
AshleyI don't think they would. They want nothing to do with this. From the prosecution's perspective, the Warrens had a clear public and commercial interest in framing the case as having something to do with the supernatural. Arnie Johnson was represented by 32-year-old defense attorney Martin
The Trial And Courtroom Reality
AshleyManella. He first learned about the case through news coverage, and although colleagues warned him to avoid it at all costs, he was intrigued by its unusual circumstances. Once it was officially announced he'd be taking the case, he started getting calls from around the world about what the media dubbed the demon murder trial. According to Manila, Arnie never claimed to have been possessed at the time of the killing. He just said he blacked out and couldn't remember what happened. Despite that, Manila visited the Warrens and reviewed the material they had gathered. He found their account compelling enough to take it seriously. At one point during his preparation, he even traveled to England to consult with lawyers who were involved in two other possession-related cases, although none of them went to trial. Arnie Johnson's trial began on October 28, 1981. Manila planned to argue that Arnie was not guilty by reason of demonic possession. The defense intended to support this claim using photo and video evidence from David's alleged possession, along with testimony from members of the Glashell family, Ed and Lorraine Warren, and several priests involved in the case.
RemiWait, so they were gonna prove that Arnie was possessed at the time of the murder by showing evidence that David was possessed?
AshleyYes, because then they were gonna conclude it with the testimony of Arnie provoking the devil to go into him.
RemiBut where's the proof that Arnie was possessed? Seems like they're only giving up evidence that David was possessed, not Arnie.
AshleyWell, notably, Carl Jr. was absent from the courtroom that day. In the documentary, he states that his parents kept him home from school, gave him a bunch of money to spend, something he believes was done to prevent him from speaking out against the possession narrative in court. The Glatzel family entered court that day, believing Arnie would ultimately be acquitted. But the first day ended in a major setback. Judge Robert Callahan ruled that a defense based on demonic possession would not be allowed. He barred all evidence, calling it irrelevant, unscientific, and unprovable. Following the ruling, all five priests silently stood in unison and left the courtroom. The Catholic Church did not speak publicly about the case after that.
RemiI love the thought of just all five priests standing up simultaneously and just being like, we're out of here.
AshleyIt's really funny. This defense attorney is in the documentary and he tries to say that he really believes Arnie was possessed and yada yada yada. And I'm like, bro, that is not why you did this. You did this because if it was successful, you would have been very famous. That's why you represented this guy. That's why you tried to prove not guilty by reason of demonic possession. Give me a fucking break. I see right through you.
RemiThank God this wasn't successful. Could you imagine if this set a precedent and people could start claiming I was possessed by a demon anytime they murdered somebody?
AshleyOh no, people can do that. But it's also called trying to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Because if you are trying to use that as a defense, more likely than not, you are either faking it or insane.
RemiBut can you enter a plea of not guilty by reason of demonic possession? I can't even say it with a straight face.
AshleyNo, it would include you saying I'm not guilty because I was possessed by the devil, and that would be interpreted as a mental illness. In this case, I think Arnie was just blacked out. Throughout the trial, the small courtroom was filled to capacity nearly every day. The prosecution sought a murder conviction carrying a sentence of 20 years to life. Their argument centered on the claim that Arnie killed Alan Bono during a drunken brawl. To sport their case, they called members of Arnie's family to testify, including his sisters. One of them described a domestic dispute between Arnie and Debbie earlier that day, which the prosecution used to suggest rising tension and instability, which in Brittle's book, he said this is the fifth possession. No, I think he was just drunk and got mad at Debbie. In contrast, Manila argued self-defense. He knew it was a difficult position to argue, but there was no viable alternative. Arnie took the stand, though his testimony was limited by his continued claim of sudden amnesia. On November 24, 1981, after approximately 15 hours of deliberation, the jury returned its verdict. Arnie Johnson was acquitted of murder, but guilty of first-degree manslaughter. On December 18, 1981, he was sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison. The Warren's involvement with the Glasshill family didn't end after Arnie was sent to prison. Following the verdict, Ed and Lorraine continued appearing on talk shows, recounting the case and
Book Money, Lawsuits, And Exploitation
Ashleytheir version of events. According to the documentary, they also told the family they were working on a book. David recalled Lorraine telling the family that they would become millionaires from the story. Carl also recalls hearing Ed or Lorraine telling the author, we don't care what really happened, make it scary. That book, The Devil in Connecticut, was published in 1983 with assistance from the Warrens.
RemiSo semi-self-published.
AshleyThere is an author, and Ed and Lorraine are listed as quote unquote contributors. And this is the second book that this guy authored with them. According to reports, the Warrens received approximately $81,000 from the book. And remember, this is 1983 money. Judy and Carl Glatzer made $4,500. Carl Jr. later stated his mother became disillusioned about the Warrens once it became clear that their promises of fame and fortune were pipe dreams. Decades later, when the book was reissued in 2006, David and Carl Jr. filed a lawsuit against Gerald Brittle, Lorraine Warren, and the publishing company, alleging violations of privacy, libel, and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Carl Jr. was particularly outspoken, arguing that the entire story was fabricated and that the Warrens exploited his family and David's mental health struggles. He also alleged they made false promises about wealth and Arnie's eventual exoneration if the book was published. The lawsuit was ultimately dismissed, though it resulted in the book going out of print for several years. However, in 2021, after the movie came out, the book was reissued under a new title, The Devil in Connecticut, from the terrifying case file that inspired the film The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It.
RemiThat is a mouthful.
AshleyThe book is complete trash and good for nothing other than lighter fuel. If you're interested in reading it, email me and I will send it to you. I beg of you, do not support anyone involved by purchasing it. I am very upset that my $8.50 went to someone even wanting anything to do with republishing this. It's abhorrent. Please, please, please, please, please do not buy this book.
RemiWhat a glowing endorsement.
AshleyBeyond the book and Netflix documentary, the case was also dramaticized in the 1983 TV movie The Demon Murder Case, starring Kevin Bacon.
RemiHey, the Baconator.
AshleyI'm kind of mad we didn't watch that, but I mean, when it's compared to some movie we've never heard of versus The Conjuring, you understand why we made the decision we did.
RemiWe still haven't covered a Kevin Bacon film, though. We gotta get on that.
AshleyArnie and Debbie were also interviewed on a Discovery Channel series about hauntings where they reiterated their support for the Warrens account of events. For decades, Ed and Lorraine Warren operated an occult museum out of their home in Monroe, Connecticut. The museum closed in 2019 due to zoning and regulatory issues. Despite admiration from many, the Warrens weren't without their critics. In 1997, members of the New England Skeptical Society paid the $13 admission fee to examine what the Warrens presented as evidence of paranormal activity. They concluded that much of the photographic material could be explained by common flash photography, errors, or simple misinterpretation. In their public statement, they described the Warrens as quote, at best, tellers of meaningless ghost stories, and at worst, dangerous frauds. Other skeptical organizations offered a more measured critique. While acknowledging that the Warrens appeared to genuinely believe in their work, they argued their methods could reinforce delusions and blur the line between personal beliefs and scientific evidence. In later years, additional controversy emerged surrounding their personal lives. In 2017, Judith Penny alleged she had a 40-year relationship with Ed Warren, beginning when he was 27 and she was 15.
RemiWait, so how did he defeat the demon with the power of love?
AshleyShe claimed both Warrens were physically abusive, further alleging Lorraine persuaded her to have an abortion to avoid public scandal. When the conjuring film series began production, Lorraine had written into the contract that Ed could not be portrayed as engaging in infidelity or any form of criminal conduct in any of the films.
RemiSo that's why in all of the movies they are just portrayed as the most in-love husband and wife imaginable.
AshleyEd Warren died on September 7, 2006, at the age of 79. Lorraine Warren died on April 18, 2019, at the age of 92. After his conviction, Arnie was housed in the maximum security wing at Somers Prison. While incarcerated, he earned his high school diploma and completed college courses. He married Debbie in January 1984, and the couple later had two children. They remained married until her death in 2021. Arnie was released on parole in January 1986 after serving roughly five years of his sentence. During his time in prison, he was considered a model inmate and showed no signs of possession or mental instability. He completed parole in 1991. Debbie remained a strong defender of the Warren's account throughout her life, a position that created tension with other members of her family. To this day, Arnie, David, and Alan continue to maintain that David was truly possessed during the events that led up to the murder, while Carl Jr. firmly rejects that interpretation and describes the entire case as a fabrication. As a result, the family remains divided and contact between them is limited. At this point, the question on many listeners' minds is probably
Medication Theory And Mass Hysteria
Ashleyif David wasn't possessed by the devil, what actually happened here? Let's explore some possibilities. According to Carl Jr., the Glatzel household was far from stable even before the alleged possession began. In the documentary, he describes his mother as a volatile and emotionally unpredictable woman, despite publicly presenting herself as a devout, stable religious homemaker. He also claims she almost never went to church prior to the events involving David. Carl Jr. further alleges that after his mother's death, he discovered a journal entry that read, quote, Well, the family had their medicine tonight, and everything was good.
RemiWhat does that mean?
AshleyHe believes that his mother Judy had been secretly administering sominex, an over-the-counter sleep aid, by mixing it into the family meals in an effort to keep the men and boys in the household subdued and manageable for years.
RemiWhat? So they're saying that the mom was drugging the entire family?
AshleyThis is what Carl Jr. believes, yes.
RemiIs there any evidence to support this, or it's just what he believes happened?
AshleyHe suggests she was able to do this by preparing shared food and serving bowls, and says she always had a separate bowl and portion for herself. So he described it as a family dinner where they were eating spaghetti. And the spaghetti was in a big bowl, and she put it on the table, and everyone ate out of the bowl, but she came with her own separate bowl that was not taken out of the serving bowl. And when she finished hers, someone asked her, Mom, do you want more? And she said, No, I'm good. And so he described it as whenever they ate, she basically had her own bowl.
RemiI don't know. This is just based on his assumption, and supposedly they were being given something that would make them more docile, and David was not being docile.
AshleyWell, I looked into the effects of sominex and was surprised by what I found. In rare cases, almost exclusively in children, the active ingredients in the drug can cause a paradoxical reaction. Instead of sedation, because it is a sleep aid, it can instead cause agitation, hyperactivity, nightmares, and hallucinations. Side effects can also include unusual facial or tongue movements, confusion, and difficulty breathing. Because of these side effects and risks, it's not recommended for children under 16 without medical supervision.
RemiDing ding ding ding. I think we have a winner. This is what was happening with David.
AshleyYou know, at first glance, you'd be like, I'm the mom drugging everyone. But think about it. This is a mother homemaker who the son described as someone who basically was just very particular in what she wanted. She wanted when she wanted it and she wanted it now. She's raising three boys between the ages of 11 and 15. I don't find it that hard to believe that, especially in the 1980s, when it came to nighttime, she wanted some peace and quiet. And all of these side effects could explain everything that the family witnessed, David experiencing, even Carl, who was like, Yeah, my brother was being crazy. And it could also explain why David still thinks that he saw these things.
RemiIt explains everything. I mean, what is more likely in this scenario that the mother was drugging her family to get them all to go to sleep early, or a demon possessed David? I think it's pretty obvious what actually occurred here.
AshleyIt would also explain why all of this suddenly stopped. At some point when she is having all this attention on her in the case, she might have felt uncomfortable about continuing to do this. I don't know. This is all speculation, speculation, speculation. We don't know 100%. I believe this explanation much more than that David was actually possessed by the devil. Some other speculations that I had even before I found this Psalm X explanation is that this is a home that is three boys. David's the youngest. Perhaps he felt that he wasn't getting enough attention and he started acting out, and he starts getting attention and starts feeding kind of into this, behaving in a way which is probably Rami, what you thought was happening at first. It's what I thought was happening at first. But if that was the case, I don't feel like David to this day in the documentary would have any reason to even participate in the documentary or still say it. Happened. And even if he did, because he wanted to save face or whatever, why would the middle child Alan still say, oh no, he was possessed?
RemiI was assuming he was faking it because there are other cases in the past where it turned out that a child was faking these symptoms. But your description of the medication and its effects on younger children, it all lines up. I'm pretty convinced that that is what went down here.
AshleyAnd interestingly, according to a couple news sources, Debbie actually attended one of Lorraine Warren's lectures prior to these events in question, which I guess is neither here nor there. But the family also all gathered around the television and watched The Exorcist together, which explains a lot of what was depicted as how David was quote unquote reacting in the book. So yeah, that is the true story of Michael Chavez's The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It.
RemiWow. Okay, that's a lot to take in. But I do want to start things off by calling the Warrens a couple of charlatans, Flim Flam men, fraudsters. It's pretty obvious what happened here. Arnie wasn't possessed. He was blacked out because he took some pills and drank a lot of alcohol. It seems obvious that David was being drugged against his knowledge and was having severe side effects because of it.
AshleyI will say David did say in the documentary that he does not think he was being drugged. He said there was no way his mother did that. I'm not saying that that's accurate or inaccurate, but that is what he said. He still does truly stand by the fact that he was possessed. But even giving that, even in the documentary, Arnie did kind of allude to the fact that he underwent possession, but at no point did he say he was possessed at the time of the murder. Like his attorney described, he just said he just didn't remember.
RemiOh yeah, I think the Arnie possession thing is almost a side thought in this entire story. David's possession was the main thing, and Ed and Lorraine just decided to piggyback onto Arnie's murder charges and say, Oh yeah, Arnie was possessed too. Arnie's sitting there like, I don't remember anything. But his lawyer and the Warrens are both like, No, you were possessed. That's that's definitely what happened. No, that is definitely not what happened in this situation at all. And the fact that they even tried to do that as a defense is absurd.
AshleyI agree. As I was researching this story, I just thought it was kind of a case of mass hysteria. Basically, my hypothesis was this was a young kid who wanted attention and was behaving in these ways that the warrants were telling him essentially how he should behave for attention. And it just went from there. But after watching the documentary and hearing the brother talk about finding this journal entry and getting confirmation that his mother bought this specific drug and researching the side effects, especially in children, it to me is the most plausible.
RemiExactly. Do you think that these people were possessed by the devil or demons? Or do you think that they probably were drugged in some way and their behavior was altered as a result, which had some dire side effects?
AshleyAnd I think the sleeping aid explanation accounts for why David and Alan, who was also only 13 years old, are convinced that this was actually happening. Carl thinks that this drugging was going on for a very long time. Again, I'm not saying it did or did not happen, but seems like a reasonable explanation. Much more reasonable than devil possession.
RemiI mean, there are tons of stories about people who have taken Ambien, another sleep aid, and blacked out and ended up doing all sorts of crazy things. So yeah, that seems totally believable to me that this family was drugged against their knowledge, and David had some horrific side effects from it.
AshleyAnd with the whole shit with Arnie, I feel like it's even less murky. I think this guy, maybe he was drunk, maybe he wasn't. Either way, there are several confirmed reports that he was drinking throughout the day. He woke up not feeling well, he took an antibiotic. In case you guys don't know, you're not supposed to mix antibiotics with alcohol. It can have weird reactions.
RemiI have been meaning to ask you this. Do you know what he took?
AshleyThe specific drug was mentioned in the book. I don't know exactly what it was, but it was painted as an antibiotic.
RemiSo not an over-the-counter drug.
AshleyNo, and he actually in the book they say that he was given an over-the-counter pain reliever, probably Tylenol Advil or something like that, and an antibiotic. So they made a point in the book, which is kind of weird because you think they would want to take that out, but you know, science has evolved since then. Either way, I do believe Arnie, when he gives his interviews, I mean, this is the first and only time this guy has ever been arrested, which is extremely rare that someone's first and only crime is straight-up murder. So I don't know, it's a it's a wild case, and we could probably talk about it for hours.
RemiWell, I think it's about time that we put the rosary
Objections Of The Week
Remibeads down, shut the Bible, and get into our objection of the week.
This Is The End (clip)Your Honor, I object! And why is that, Mr. Eed? Because it's devastating to my case! Overrule. Good call!
RemiI will start things this week. Hopefully it's not as much of a heated debate as it was during our cherry episode two weeks ago, but we will see. So my objection this week is basically a numbers game. In the film, Arnie stabs Bruno twenty two times, while in real life, Arnie stabs Bono four to five times. That is my objection. It seems like a needless increase in brutality, and yeah, it doesn't really make a gigantic difference. He was murdered either way. I don't know why they decided to increase it to twenty-two. So yeah, that's my objection this week. I had a ton of other ones, but uh I will let you say yours first because I don't want to step on your toes and mention anything that you may talk about right now.
AshleyGod, I had so many, and I also had yours written down. And I think why that number might have been chosen is basically depending on the sources you looked at, it either said he was stabbed four to five times or forty times. It's a pretty big discrepancy. So I don't know, maybe the guy just went with 22 because it was in the middle.
RemiEither way, it didn't seem necessary. I mean, why 22?
AshleySo I had several. I'm gonna say my top three because I think they're all good. I'll end with the one I went with. My first is in the movie, the prosecution is asking for the death penalty. Prosecution was never asking for the death penalty in this case. Second, Arnie Johnson's in the movie, the attorney is a woman. In reality, it's a man. My third objection that I am going with is in the movie, David is eight years old. In reality, he is 11. That is my objection. I don't know why they changed that. 8, 11, I guess eight, you look sweeter and cuter, but come on, just make the kid 11.
RemiI'm pretty sure the actor that was playing the kid was not eight years old. He looked older than that.
AshleyHe was probably closer to 11. So why change the age?
RemiAlright, this week I will bow out. That is by far the more superfluous change. And just a quick reminder to everyone in case this is your first episode that you're listening to. Welcome, first of all. But also the objection of the week is the most superfluous, unnecessary change. There's a billion big changes in this movie, so we could have gone on and on about all of those. But Ashley's is definitely the most minute, unnecessary change that was made.
AshleyWell, talking about big changes, that leads us to our verdict.
This Is The End (clip)At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will deliver a verdict based on the film's accuracy. If the film is an honest portrayal of the events, then it will earn a not guilty verdict. If the adaptation is mostly factual, but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars.
AshleyAlright, so our verdict. I feel like there's no question about
Verdict And Why It’s Guilty
Ashleywhat my verdict will be. This is clearly, clearly guilty. Obviously, this is guilty. This movie has so little to do with the whole story, other than the fact that they piggybacked on a murder that happened and a possession that was connected to it that had to do with the Warrens. It's actually kind of funny because as I was listening to your description of the movie, I was writing down my objections and also like little funny things that they included. So I had pointed out as you were describing the movie, Remy, the tree incident, how Arnie was working and had an injury on the job, the fact that he was fixing bono stereo, the fact that he was found just kind of walking down the street in a trance-like state, the fact that the lawyer did agree to go to the Warren's house, and that David was thrown back on a waterbed. And it was just so interesting to me that those little details were included, and yet everything else basically about the story, the whole bones were just changed so drastically. I found it so humorous that in the end of the post-production part, you were like, Arnie took offense with how the events were depicted on screen and said they weren't completely accurate. Guilty, guilty, guilty.
RemiAnd second, this film gets a guilty verdict. I think that's so stupidly obvious. I don't think Ed and Lorraine Warren were in any way reputable.
AshleyI'm actually shocked that the description said based on true events instead of inspired by.
RemiTotally agree. I think that the films are giving the Warrens unjust credibility and legitimacy by saying things like, This is based on a true story. No, it wasn't. There is no crazy witch in this story. There is no old man who had a daughter that he kept in a subterranean lair with an altar and taught them how to be a Satanist. All of that is nonsense. This is in such a loose way connected to the real story. It seems like there are little checkpoints that you mentioned, like the waterbed, like Arnie working, cutting trees, stuff like that. But everything else is just ridiculous, spooky, ghoulish nonsense. None of this happened the way that the conjuring is making it out to be. And the way the film portrays these events doesn't even make sense in the story. Like the whole time they are trying to do all of this to prove that Arnie actually was possessed, and this should be the thing that gets him off. No, he's sentenced at the end because that is what really happened, because the real Arnie got drunk, blacked out, and killed someone. He was not possessed. And I just resent the fact that these movies have in any way given credibility or esteem to the Warrens. Because the Warrens are full of shit. They were taking advantage of people who were going through some horrifically traumatic stuff at the time. Same with psychics, same with mediums, all that sort of stuff. I just personally disagree with. They exploited everyone. We were talking about this off-air. What's the story with Annabelle? It's a raggedy and doll in real life, and the movies have all sorts of crazy shit happening that I'm sure did not happen in real life. All of it is bullshit, all of it is nonsense. So I don't know, it's just ridiculous, man.
AshleyHere's the description on Wikipedia about Annabelle.
RemiThe real Annabelle, not the movie version.
AshleyAccording to the Warrens, in 1970, two roommates said their Raggedy Ann doll was possessed by the spirit of a young girl named Annabelle Higgins. The Warrens took the doll, telling the roommates it was being manipulated by an inhuman presence. And put it on display at the family's occult museum.
RemiWait, wait, wait. So some family just said this doll's creeping me out, and the Warrens showed up and were like, it's haunted. We're taking it, we're putting it in a museum. Wow. These people are shameless. Well, we will be taking a break from Satanists and goblins
Next Film Tease And Closing
Remiand ghouls and all of that stuff to talk about a tragic case of false imprisonment in a film called The Hurricane, starring the one and only Denzel Washington. This man was a professional boxer who basically lost his entire life by being sentenced to prison for murder for a crime that he didn't do. So we will get into all of the details of that, as well as Denzel Washington's remarkable performance, I'm sure.
AshleyI'm excited for this. I've never seen this movie. I don't think I even had heard of this movie until you had suggested it, but we are trying to include more wrongful conviction cases in our seasons because there's a lot of them and their stories deserve to be told.
RemiWe like to mix it up. We will throw in a haunted possession case every now and then, we will throw in a false imprisonment every now and then, we will throw in a comedy every now and then. We like to mix it up as much as we can.
AshleyWell, Remy, let's watch a trailer of the Hurricane. But before we do that.
RemiThank you for listening.
The Hurricane (trailer)Carter is the slave name that was given to my forefathers and was passed on to me. Hurricane is the professional name that I acquired later on in life. One thing I could do and the only thing was. He thinks he's champion of the world. Looking for two new girls and a white car. Any two will do. At least the two men would die.
Ed WarrenTake another look.
The Hurricane (trailer)I've committed no crime. Current being committed, it gets me.
